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someone1980
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Post subject: For the computer heads Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:27 pm |
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 pm Posts: 2305
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I had an interesting discussion today. This person and I started talking about work. When I asked him what he did, he said "I work on a tactical TCP/IP stack".
I laughed for longer then was polite for that conversation (Ya you say tactcal pants out loud and don't laugh). Turns out they made a tactical TCP/IP stack for some wicked wireless stuff the Army was doing. He claimed that they got a huge boost in performance, for their application.
Any ways "Tactical TCP/IP Stacks" do exist.
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grayskys
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:42 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
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Geez I am having enough trouble trying to learn php 5 and Mandarin Chinese with out having to worry about tactical stacks...
Fahng-tzong fung-kwong duh jeh.
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Pat Cannon
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:48 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1421 Location: South Minneapolis (East of Lake Nokomis)
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grayskys wrote: Geez I am having enough trouble trying to learn php 5 and Mandarin Chinese... Wow! AppleScript and English is all I can manage.
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mo_the_mouse
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:20 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:48 am Posts: 517 Location: Coon Rapids
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The TCP/IP stack, as it were, is not a fixed standard. Microsoft has its version, Linux and Mac theirs. You can build your own if you are so inclined. Knowing the military, the application probably had a built in stack which they modified for better performance.
So to answer your question. TCP/IP stacks do exist. Tactical is in the eye of the beholder.
_________________ MADFI Certified Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
That is all....
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:29 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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mo_the_mouse wrote: The TCP/IP stack, as it were, is not a fixed standard. Microsoft has its version, Linux and Mac theirs. You can build your own if you are so inclined. Knowing the military, the application probably had a built in stack which they modified for better performance.
So to answer your question. TCP/IP stacks do exist. Tactical is in the eye of the beholder.
How TCP/IP implementations interact is very much a fixed standard. How they are implemented internally is very much not.
The standard implementations of TCP/IP were designed for a wired world, and issues of latency, timing, etc., have meant that they didn't work all that well when they were first tried wireless.
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ttousi
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:51 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am Posts: 3311 Location: St. Paul, MN.
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someone1980
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:57 am |
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 pm Posts: 2305
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Mostly commenting on the over use of the word tactical. Turns out that it may have actually been used correctly in this case.
The very fact that a communications sub-system of a computer (sub-sub-system?) can be tactical sort of amazed me.
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A Brit in MN
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:54 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:32 pm Posts: 1803 Location: Woodbury
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Me too, that said, being "tactical" SWAT black, ACU, Marpat or woodland camoflage What do they dress these computers in?
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Selurcspi
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:20 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
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A Brit in MN wrote: Me too, that said, being "tactical" SWAT black, ACU, Marpat or woodland camoflage What do they dress these computers in?
Olive Drab, what do you expect!
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
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SethB
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:26 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:02 pm Posts: 818 Location: downtown Mpls
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jdege wrote: The standard implementations of TCP/IP were designed for a wired world, and issues of latency, timing, etc., have meant that they didn't work all that well when they were first tried wireless.
Satellite links go way back, and they have much worse statistics than local wireless (802.11*).
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:13 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Just geekitry; unless you're into it for work or fun, not worth the bother.
_________________ Just a guy.
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jdege
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:18 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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SethB wrote: jdege wrote: The standard implementations of TCP/IP were designed for a wired world, and issues of latency, timing, etc., have meant that they didn't work all that well when they were first tried wireless. Satellite links go way back, and they have much worse statistics than local wireless (802.11*).
Yep, they do.
And nobody runs TCP/IP over them.
Instead, they tunnel TCP/IP through them, which is a very different thing.
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Jeremiah
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:01 am |
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Raving Moderate |
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm Posts: 1292 Location: Minneapolis
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joelr wrote: Just geekitry; unless you're into it for work or fun, not worth the bother.
Heyyy... ...I resemble that remark...
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SethB
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:50 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:02 pm Posts: 818 Location: downtown Mpls
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jdege wrote: SethB wrote: jdege wrote: The standard implementations of TCP/IP were designed for a wired world, and issues of latency, timing, etc., have meant that they didn't work all that well when they were first tried wireless. Satellite links go way back, and they have much worse statistics than local wireless (802.11*). Yep, they do. And nobody runs TCP/IP over them. Instead, they tunnel TCP/IP through them, which is a very different thing.
I remember when we had to increase the message window over them, because otherwise the message window size limited the bandwidth (there could be more packets in transit than the window size allowed).
In any case, tunneling TCP/IP through a satellite link is no better, and probably worse: you still have the huge latency.
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Jeff Boucher-Zamzo
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:34 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:35 am Posts: 229 Location: Minneapolis
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It's even better then that. Over the years there have been several hacks developed by adjusting packet metadata in ways that confuse the ip stack of the recieving computers, creating all sorts of cool, and icky responses.
So not only can you create "Tactical Stacks", but you can create Tactical attack packets, and tactical stealth packets.
Look at SYN attacks, ICMP attacks, and Smurf (spoofed ECHO broadcasts)attacks.
_________________ MADFI Certified Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
--------------------------------------------------------
"Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Night Watch)
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