Mall of America feeble posting
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Inebrius
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Post subject: Mall of America feeble posting Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 7:39 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:30 pm Posts: 197 Location: Minneapolis
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I know you all are fully aware that it's posted as I've seen reference to it in other threads but put it here in it's own thread for a couple of reasons:
1.) If you come in from the parking lot it's not visible from the entrance. You can't see it until you get into the first set of doors. Then it's on the side wall in one of those digital advertising signs and if I remember correctly the verbiage is incorrect. Anyone else remember this?
2.) If they take 10s of millions in taxpayer money to expand do they lose their right to legally post?
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jac714
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:10 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:40 am Posts: 1204 Location: Golden Valley, MN
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They are a landlord so the Mall cannot legally post anyway.
Those signs have no legal validity.
_________________ MN DNR Certified FAS Instructor NRA Pistol, PPITH, and PPOTH Certified Instructor IFIA MCPPA Certified Instructor
"For those who fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." -Unknown
Honorably Discharged member of Uncle Sam's Underwater Canoe Club.
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Inebrius
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:08 pm |
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:30 pm Posts: 197 Location: Minneapolis
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They have a fair amount of roving security. If one detects you carrying can they legitimately ask you to leave and make trouble for you by way of the $25 fine?
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A Brit in MN
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:46 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:32 pm Posts: 1803 Location: Woodbury
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Inebrius wrote: They have a fair amount of roving security. If one detects you carrying can they legitimately ask you to leave and make trouble for you by way of the $25 fine?
The Law
Subd. 17. Posting; trespass. (a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.
(b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this paragraph have the meanings given.
(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:
(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or
(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.
(2) "Prominently" means readily visible and within four feet laterally of the entrance with the bottom of the sign at a height of four to six feet above the floor.
(3) "Conspicuous" means lettering in black arial typeface at least 1-1/2 inches in height against a bright contrasting background that is at least 187 square inches in area.
(4) "Private establishment" means a building, structure, or portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose.
(c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area.
(d) This subdivision does not apply to private residences. The lawful possessor of a private residence may prohibit firearms, and provide notice thereof, in any lawful manner.
(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.
(f) Notwithstanding any inconsistent provisions in section 609.605, this subdivision sets forth the exclusive criteria to notify a permit holder when otherwise lawful firearm possession is not allowed in a private establishment and sets forth the exclusive penalty for such activity.
(g) This subdivision does not apply to:
(1) an active licensed peace officer; or
(2) a security guard acting in the course and scope of employment.
If they ask you to leave.....LEAVE!!
If not..............we'll all come around and slap you in the forehead
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:48 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Inebrius wrote: They have a fair amount of roving security. If one detects you carrying can they legitimately ask you to leave and make trouble for you by way of the $25 fine?
If you leave when verbally requested to do so, there is no offense. Just say "OK, Mr. Security Guard" and walk out the nearest door.
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Srigs
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Post subject: Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:27 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am Posts: 3752 Location: East Suburbs
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Just out of spite, I carry more guns when I go to the MOA.
_________________ Srigs
Side Guard Holsters
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton
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Inebrius
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Post subject: Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:54 am |
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 9:30 pm Posts: 197 Location: Minneapolis
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I understand the law but I guess I should have worded it differently. Do they understand the law and are their guards instructed to escort Permit to Carry holders to the nearest exit if detected? In other words are the guards instructed to break the law? If they are breaking the law is there a way to force them to comply?
As you point out they are a landlord and don't have the legal right to ban guns so do they have the legal right to ask you to leave because of it. I know they can ask you to leave but this would seem to be one of those grey areas.
I assume if I were asked to leave and didn't the police responding to the call would act on behalf of the MOA rather than adhere closely to the law as they can simply state they asked me to leave for other reasons.
I make it to MOA about once a year if that so it's not high on my agenda to mess around with this. I'm just bringing this all up out of curiosity. Forgive me if I'm reviving a dead horse...
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cobb
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Post subject: Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:01 am |
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1911 tainted |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
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My understanding would be that the MOA is the landlord, therefore the MOA posting is unenforceable.
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ttousi
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Post subject: Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:29 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am Posts: 3311 Location: St. Paul, MN.
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gaygoalie
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Post subject: Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:48 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:51 pm Posts: 372 Location: Lakeville
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Inebrius wrote: As you point out they are a landlord and don't have the legal right to ban guns so do they have the legal right to ask you to leave because of it. I know they can ask you to leave but this would seem to be one of those grey areas.
This comes up way too often.. If you really want to pursue it, think of the amount of political pull they have, and the amount of money they have to spend on lawyers.. then think of the law being changed allowing landlords to post, due to the 2 things mentioned earlier..
Let a sleeping dog lie.. I'd rather do that, than risk the law being changed.
_________________ Certified MN Carry Permit instructor check http://www.mncarrytraining.com/ for info
My Homebrew journal http://brew.goalie.cx
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