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Churches get exception from posting laws
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=181		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Slythex [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Churches get exception from posting laws
http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_255141100.html

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpr ... 626250.htm
Author:  Pakrat [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
wcco wrote:
The 2005 Act impermissibly intrudes into the free exercise of religion by arbitrary definitions, which dictate restrictions on the use of church property for worship, childcare, parking and rental space," Lange wrote.

What the hell does that mean? How does it intrude into religion AT ALL? Non-permit holders can worship FREELY! Permit holders can worship FREELY! Preachers can preach FREELY! Where are the restrictions?

wcco wrote:
Her ruling applies in Hennepin County...

Wow, big win! They must be so proud of themselves... This will not hold up. At least the last lawsuit had a legal basis.

wcco wrote:
But an attorney for the churches hinted at a forthcoming push to have the order recognized elsewhere, too.

Well, I never got around to signing up for the activism email list, but now I'm in. {explitives removed voluntarily}

I should have my permit in 10 days, when do we rally?
Author:  JDR [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Why stop at removing the requirement to notify people with legal handguns?

I guess they can now remove the exit signs, hand railings, handicap access to doors and handicap parking, as well as all the other state mandated “stuff” that apparently infringe on their religious rights.

Maybe they shouldn’t be required to conform to the Minnesota State Building Code.

I guess if you carry, you sure do not want to go near their facilities, parking lost, areas (where you may not be aware of) that there are using, but belong to others.

How does that work if they have a activity in a city/county park?
Author:  joelr [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
What I want to know -- given that the churches involved apparently don't have to give any notice at all to permit holders -- is what the legal penalty is for violation of Double Secret Probation? And what's the statutory support for that penalty?
Author:  Pakrat [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ha! I love double secret probation.

Can the court invalidate the whole law in this case? I wouldn't think so.
Author:  jem375 [ Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
If the churches are going to be involved in politics, maybe they should lose their tax exemption on property.
Author:  Janitor [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
"The 2005 Act impermissibly intrudes into the free exercise of religion by arbitrary definitions, which dictate restrictions on the use of church property for worship, childcare, parking and rental space,"

Huh?

This is based on thoughts so abstract that I'm not even worthy to read it.

Could somebody more pure than I decode this for me? How in the he## does putting up a sign expressing your wishes restrict the use of church property and parking space? You can still stand on the podium and proselytize to the sheeple that want to listen. You can still park your car out in your parking lot. In fact - you're even still free to be mugged or raped in your paking lot if that is how you excercise your freedom.

What is it that I'm missing here?

Are they afraid of an armed insurrection by the alter boys or something like that?
Author:  cobb [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Janitor wrote:
Are they afraid of an armed insurrection by the alter boys or something like that?

I know you state this in innocence, but I don't think we want to go there. :wink:
Author:  Pakrat [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:43 am ]
Post subject: 
I guess this goes without saying... The obvious immediate goal of the churches is to ban all packing on any church property. Some states have that in their carry laws. I think they are mostly southern states... :roll:

Even if the legislature passes a ban on churches, they aren't going to include the parking lots. I think if this issue turns into a bill, we need to force a complete parking lot- gun safe amendment. One reason: make it so employers cannot bar their employees from keeping it in their cars.

When did churches become liberal? They condemn gay marriage, and gay communion. They read from the book that's older than they are. But, don't conservatives like guns?

I understand a place not wanting guns there. But, what I don't understand is the carelessness with other people's safety. I think we should rally at these churches; either packing on the streets, or with holsters to signify who we are (don't want to get arrested for contempt of court) and probably signs.

Alter boys- Anyone else associate that with something dirty? I have never liked that term. Having said that, any jokes with alter boys in it is funny.
Author:  johnalbert [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Somebody explain this to me. This only applies to the two churches?

:?: :?:
Author:  Big_R [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:15 am ]
Post subject: 
jem375 wrote:
If the churches are going to be involved in politics, maybe they should lose their tax exemption on property.


This is what I'm really curious about. The same question was brought up last time and went no where. What sort of a push would it take to make something like this happen, a call to the IRS?

Ryan

P.S. I have no problem with religious institutions voicing their beliefs, but at what point is the line crossed into becoming politically involved?
Author:  Pakrat [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:26 am ]
Post subject: 
johnalbert wrote:
Somebody explain this to me. This only applies to the two churches?

The articles I've (skimmed) read do not have very much info. It's as if they are keeping it under the radar.

I think the order is for any church in the Hennepin County. But, that doesn't seem right if it's only the two churches fighting it. What if other churches want to allow carrying?

Enjoy:
Image

http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/index_1.php
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I think if this issue turns into a bill, we need to force a complete parking lot- gun safe amendment. One reason: make it so employers cannot bar their employees from keeping it in their cars.


That already exists. The judge just poked a hole in it.

Quote:
But, that doesn't seem right if it's only the two churches fighting it. What if other churches want to allow carrying?


This decision does not force churches to disallow guns -- it simply allows churches to ban guns without posting a sign or telling anyone.

Yup, and this judge graduated from law school. Boggles the mind, don't it?
Author:  CW Spook [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Pakrat wrote:
When did churches become liberal? They condemn gay marriage, and gay communion. They read from the book that's older than they are. But, don't conservatives like guns?


You haven't been watching what's happened to the mainline Protestant denominations. I bet you won't find many of the evangelical churches supporting this, but I'll bet the UMC, UCC, & PCUSA (to name a few) all do. They're also the denominations that are losing members at a staggering rate.
Author:  lance22 [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Not worried
Good for them if they want to quit 'posting' ... their sign was merely court-fodder so I can understand that they don't want to keep it. It's not like they have sportsmen among their paltry ranks, anyway.

Their sanctuary is a miniture for the dystopia they hope to achieve ... a doctrine of high taxes and governemt entitlements preached to masses who have no recourse but that which the rulers allow. It is a vision more in line with Che Guevera than Thomas Jefferson. One understands their aversion to anything that would give the people a balance of power, as no Marxist has ever given power to the people.

In the end it is as it was before: Each church chooses who it will or won't serve.
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