Well, I have a little time, so I will write it up for all to see.

I was up in/near Detroit Lakes on Saturday. My friend David (a black guy) and I were taking instruction from Paul Horvick (phorvick).

{Boring background info}
Before we got to Paul's place, we stopped 10-20(?) minutes away in Pelican Rapids at a Citgo for a bathroom break. Both of us had our guns on us, but we both had our jackets on. This Citgo has a Subway in it.

After our training, we were both hungry and remembered the Subway. I had taken off my jacket for the warm car ride. I had my gun uncovered. David was still wearing his jacket (concealed). We both got sandwiches.

We decided to eat at the Citgo/Subway. While we were sitting and eating, David mentions that he asked the sandwich artist how many cookies he got with the meal. The guy replied "as many as you want". David thought that was weird, but didn't expect anything wrong.

{Interesting part?}
A Pelican Rapids officer came in the store and came straight at me. We believe he asked first "Do you have a gun?" But, the gun was on his side, in plain site. Then I got the typical "Are you guys police officers?" The officer heard David say "Just permit holders". This officer did not hear anything I said (quiet talker, and now a little nervous). The officer wanted to see my permit. These next details aren't going to be in order... The officer (after a minute or so) asked David if he had a gun. David indicated yes. The officer asked "Where?" and David pointed very exagerated (as to not look like he's going for the gun). David had asked "aren't there other permit holders up here?" The officer replied "yea, but we know them all" The officer ran through the "...small town, everyone knows everyone. Two strangers walk in with guns..." crap. The officer asked us again if we were LEOs or (he used a better term) wanna-be's. He ran my permit, "he has some sort of permit". It came back right away as clear. The dispatcher did have to ask him if everything was "code 4" [clear/ok]. This officer was upset at us. There was a Otter Tail County Sheriff Deputy that showed up while this was going on. The deputy looked 18-21 and his uniform was too big. The deputy tried to sound official while telling us stuff like we wouldn't scare anyone if it was covered up... blah blah... We had informed both of them where we were coming from. The deputy cut the authoritive crap and then moved to the small talk. "where you from? Are you in school up here?" The police officer had to go outside maybe to get a better signal and had to repeat the request for info on David. It eventually came back clear of course. The police must be dispatched by the county, because we could hear everything anyways from the deputy's radio.

We got the "best to cover up" again. We indicated we are leaving (done with our sandwiches by then).

{Conclusion}
If the officers weren't still there and customers hadn't showed up, I might have said something I would've regretted to the employee's.

All in all, it was a pretty easy encounter. We were surprised that the officer didn't go to David first (remember he's black).

I emailed Paul to let him know of this incident so he wasn't caught off guard (since we mentioned his name). On Sunday he said he would talk to the Sheriff on Monday.

He talked to the Sheriff and got a positive response. The sheriff indicated he was worried about any ill treatment. He indicated that he would educate the deputies.

Well, that will teach you to stray away from home. If that had happened around here I'm sure you would have had guns pointed at you and asked to get your face on the pavement.

My first experience with an LEO wasn while my wife and I were walking our baby. I had a short sleeve shirt unbuttoned over a tank top covering my piece. It was hot out, damn hot. I took off my outer shirt and my gun was exposed. About 10 minutes later the new rookie deputy happened by making his rounds and stopped. He rolled down his window and said "hi". He introduced himslef and proceeded to ask me if that was a Glock on my hip? I told him "Nope, it's a Springfield". He says "It sure looks like a Glock, they won't let us carry Glocks for the County". He made soem small talk then went on his way. He never asked me if I had a permit, never asked me any questions other than "Is that a Glock?"

Interesting story..........glad everything worked out.

"He talked to the Sheriff and got a positive response. The sheriff indicated he was worried about any ill treatment. He indicated that he would educate the deputies."

Sheriff seems like he is squared away, based on underlined above.

I cannot help but point out all of this could have been avoided if you had not choosen to open carry.

I am not saying open carry is wrong, but it can create some significant hassles.

I agree 100% with Erik, the only time I open carry is while deer hunting and that is on my own private land. Sure you can open carry and maybe the public needs to get used to it but with the small percentage of permit holders vs the vast numbers of people who are not, I doubt this "education" will ever happen and causes incidents as outlined in the lead post. It's not my job to get the public used to seeing guns, I just want to protect myself and the best way to do that is to keep the gun hidden unless you need it.

I interpreted his post and commentary somewhat differently.

My interpretation is that it was not the interaction with the police and deputy per se that was a concern (as I think we all know that open carry will/might lead to "man with a gun" calls to the police). Rather it was the non-prpofessional attitude of the officers involved that was the concern.

Statements that Mr. Pakrat was showing "some kind of permit", or that the deputy would either demean or demonize legal carry goes beyond what would be expected of a professional law enforcement agent.

The public should expect their officers to be up to date with something as common as a Permit to Carry, and should no tbe interjecting any sarcastic or rude commentary into the investigation. It is not like officers in Otter Tail County have not seen Permit holders before. It is very common.

I know that Pakrat and the Sheriff have both said that race was not an issue, and I believe that to be true. However, being from out of town does not and did not justify the comments that were made. It reflects poorly on the officers, not the Permit holders....and that is the issue I discussed with the Sheriff...and he agreed. Hopefully his department will be the better for it....

YMMV

I'm glad that the hassle wasn't worse for you, Pak.

Here's a LEO story for you: Moral of the story is some LEO's like to pick on young adults because they think they can get away with it easier.

After high school I attended a college in Seattle, WA and on Saturdays I used to like to go down to the Sea Front to bum around ... being from MN seeing the ocean was a major novelty for an 18 yo.

One day I was wandering around by myself and a LEO came up to me and demanded to see my Service Card. He put his hand on his service revolver, gripped it hard, AND SNAPPED OFF THE HAMMER STRAP. I replied that I was a college student and was not in the military ... he called me a liar and demanded to see "my card" so I have him my college ID. He continued to give me shit for about 10 minutes, saying I was AWOL from my unit and BS like that ... all the while gripping his pistol and thumbing the hammer (he kept it in the holster, though) like he was going to draw on me or I was some kind of threat. Mind you, at the time I was as straight laced and naive as can be ... and this was my crime ... I had that look on my face that said "fresh off the farm" and I guess for people like him that's just an invitation. BTW ... this was 1984.

Most LEO's are great people but there are a few sadists in the bunch and these can make your day unpleasant.

Well, let's see. The sheriff promised to have a word with the deputies, and will probably talk to the department as a whole about respecting permit holders.

The next time someone is seen carrying (either carrying openly or inadvertently flashing), the dispatcher may ask if the carrier is doing anything threatening, and then close the call. Or the cops may show up, have a very short and polite conversation with the permit holder, then politely explain to the Subway employees that one needn't call the cops to report completely legal behavior.

I'd say some good edumacation has taken place, that never would have if Pakrat hadn't open carried.

It's downright inspiring, actually. If only one percent of Minnesota permit holders, geographically distributed around the state, carried openly on a daily basis, we'd soon educate one helluva lot of people.

Sure, some won't get it, but lots would.

I understand what you are saying. I've read plenty of opinions, so I knew what to expect.

My friend David (the black guy), has been open carrying on a regular basis. The reasoning is that if he concealed it, being black, he could make people nervous. Whereas with open carry, someone breaking the law would not scream "look I've got a gun". So, he has inspired me to open carry more (not all the time...).

In regards to the fact that we need to give people time to adjust to seeing guns: Yes we do, until then of course permit holders will be hassled. But, how do we expose the public to guns? We carry them.

One note to my story- I'm pretty sure I made it through the line and paid with a credit card before anyone would have seen my gun. No one was behind the counter until I was at the counter and I didn't really step away until I paid. I know it's possible that for all they knew I stole the card. But, does paying with a traceable method scream criminal? No.

There is intentionally carrying in the open, and then there are the times you may carry open, but not necessarily mean to. Like here, a jacket was forgotten. Is should be no big deal. No laws were broken, so why be treated so?

I hope my earlier comments were not interpreted by some to mean I am against open carry, I'm not. I was trying to state that I don't open carry. I have several reasons:
1. I don't want to advertise that I am armed.
2. I don't want the "Man with a gun" hassle.
3. I travel a lot and carry in various states, Texas in particular, where it is
a crime to "print" or have part of your gun showing.

To ensure I don't get careless when I travel, I always practice total concealment wherever I am.

I had a long business trip in Northern Minnesota (imagine a giant circle involving Grand Rapids, Hibbing, Virginia, Cloquet, Detroit Lakes, Park Rapids & Bemidji, then back through Grand Rapids and back to the cities) and carried everywhere but the client sites.

I was cognizant that a stranger walking into a small-town, off-the-highway convenience store with a visible firearm would likely be alarming to the employees and other customers. Just BEING in many small towns gets their radar up, since they easily ID you as an outsider and those people are inherently suspicious of outsiders. Especially black guys -- a lot of towns have had unfortunate experiences involving sports recruits at regional colleges.

I also think that rural law enforcement isn't what it is in the Metro area. Lots of real young guys who deal with community issues (DWI, domestics, petty theft) but not much else. Usually they're locals and they may lack the "wordliness" to know what to make of a non-local carrying a gun, even if it is legal. Not that SPPD or MPD are full of JDs in blue, they do seem to have more of a worldliness to them than do many of the very young rural LEOs.

I also wonder if handguns aren't as well accepted among some rural communities. I was pheasant hunting in South Dakota recently and brought my S&W Model 41, a .22LR target pistol, to burn time when not hunting. Despite the fact that the farm we stayed on had rifles and shotguns in an unlocked case, they were kind of leery of the pistol. They let me shoot it (excellent backstop -- 30' dirt hill/berm), but I got the impression it wasn't something they were entirely comfortable with, even thought nobody seemed to care about us wandering all around with loaded shotguns.

My overall instinct is that unless you're well known in a specific rural community, especially in an area "right off the highway", keeping concealed is probably a decent idea. Maybe one of those CCW badges...

Yup. It's Otter Tail; I'm pleased to hear that, but utterly unsurprised.

Maybe we should have a "CARRY OPEN DAY" Pick a day and lets carry open.

I have heard many references to open carry in MN, because Packing.org tends to be focused on the Packing (CCW) laws, I am not sure about open carry. Is it legal in MN? Require a permit too, or what?