John Caile wrote:
LESS IS MORE, whether on the 911 call or at the scene.
I agree with you John. Or is it, you agree with me?
Great post.
| Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/ |
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| Question about having to draw your weapon http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13487 |
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| Author: | Big and Tasty [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
Thanks Kimberman for the add on's. As always - good advice. |
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| Author: | John Caile [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
A few comments: Some of the points mentioned do have validity, but we can come up with endless what-ifs when it comes to DGUs (and we've all heard the guy in the gun store pontificating about what is or is not assault - forgetting that a prosecutor and a jury will make that call, not him). But I'd rather go with the guys whose cuff-links cost more than your car - the nation's top criminal defense attorneys, and they clearly advise that in ALL conversations with police in the wake of a DGU (and most especially a shots-fired one) the LESS YOU SAY THE BETTER. On 911, say only that you were attacked and they ran off (in the case of a no-shots-fired) and give your current location or, (in the case of a shots-fired incident) say NOTHING other than that you were attacked and give your current location. Worrying that you will be viewed as "uncooperative" by the 911 operator will lead to your spilling your guts on a 911 call, and THAT will be a gift to the prosecutor. There is no "race" to call 911 (this is another of those urban legal myths) - whose call got logged in first (yours or the bad guys) is utterly irrelevant . Now, it IS true that the bad guys will often call, just to get you in trouble, so it is important to call as soon as possible after the incident (obviously if you called something like an hour after the incident, it could indeed be used against you). I recommend NO mention of being a permit holder no matter what - in the case of a no-shots-fired call, you will likely be the only person waiting for police when they show up, and assuming the correct non-threatening posture is the best you can do. You may be able to tell by the attitude (and the tone of questioning) of the arriving cops if they got that Bad Guy call, and have the option to tell them about your firearm on your terms. In the case of a shots-fired DGU, the scene will be chaos, with numerous people milling around when the cops (lots of them) will arrive, thanks in part to the multiple (and hysterical) 911 calls the cops got from bystanders (read the calls on Treptow for an illustration). When the cops arrive on a no-shots fired DGU call, you may talk to police, UP TO THE POINT THAT THEY APPEAR TO BE DOING ANYTHING BEYOND TAKING YOUR STATEMENT - at that point, one can ask a qualifying question, and if necessary, "lawyer up" (see Marc Berris' card). When the cops arrive on a shots-fired call, it is even simpler - other than a statement like "that man tried to kill us" we should SHUT UP and wait for our lawyer. Bottom line? NONE of us can predict what the ultimate outcome of a DGU will be, no matter what we do or don't do - the possible scenarios are endless. So the best thing you can do is to always take the safest course - LESS IS MORE, whether on the 911 call or at the scene. Just some thoughts |
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| Author: | jaysong [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
John Caile wrote: LESS IS MORE, whether on the 911 call or at the scene. I agree with you John. Or is it, you agree with me? Great post.
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| Author: | phorvick [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
jaysong wrote: John Caile wrote: LESS IS MORE, whether on the 911 call or at the scene. I agree with you John. Or is it, you agree with me? Great post.Neither....it is that you agree with me! 
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| Author: | jaysong [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
 and YAAL.I always keep tellin' folks that "everyone is entitled to my opinion".
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| Author: | mrokern [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
I agree with John that less is better. I'll respectfully disagree with is that the race to the courthouse is a myth. There are members here who are criminal defense attorneys (not just attorneys, but ones who actively specialize in criminal defense) who not only say otherwise, they teach otherwise in their carry classes. Then again, do all of them agree? Nope. And as far as on-scene comments? I agree with Ayoob: -He attacked me. -I will sign a complaint. -There is the evidence, there are the witnesses. -I want to speak to my attorney immediately, and I do not consent to any search. -Mark |
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| Author: | pablobear [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
Here's my question, when we call our "about to be" (saying that we call one of the lawyers on our list given to us by our gun instructor and have never met with them before) and lets say for sake of argument, that it's 3am, do we just get an answering machine? Is there an answering service, are they on call like doctors? What do we tell them? |
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| Author: | mrokern [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
pablobear wrote: Here's my question, when we call our "about to be" (saying that we call one of the lawyers on our list given to us by our gun instructor and have never met with them before) and lets say for sake of argument, that it's 3am, do we just get an answering machine? Is there an answering service, are they on call like doctors? What do we tell them? The lawyer I will call first has a dedicated mobile number that he answers. You should if at all possible have more than one attorney's number available to you. I carry three. -Mark |
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| Author: | pablobear [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
I have the list that Joel gave us on his business card. Do any of them have dedicated cells? |
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| Author: | mrokern [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
pablobear wrote: I have the list that Joel gave us on his business card. Do any of them have dedicated cells? I'm not sure whose numbers Joel is handing out these days, but I'm betting Marc Berris is on the list. Marc is going to be my second call. My first one is a simple "get-me-the-hell-out-of-this-jail-cell-before-I-become-Bubba's-girlfriend" call, and he would likely send me directly to Marc once I'm out. Disclosure, the first call is to an attorney I consider to be a friend (I fully expect to be billed for his services, of course). He's my first because I know that I have the best chance of getting him directly on the phone, and as a friend I know he'd bust heads to get me out. I only see a general number on Marc's card, but I'm guessing he has a service. He's a member here, perhaps he'll chime in.  -Mark |
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| Author: | plblark [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
He has something on his phone line ... If this is an emergency, press ? I don't remember? and I will be paged |
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| Author: | JimC [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
This thread is scarry, really makes ya hope you never have to draw your gun or fire it |
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| Author: | JonL [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Question about having to draw your weapon |
JimC wrote: This thread is scarry, really makes ya hope you never have to draw your gun or fire it Yep. It's been said here before. It's only an option when it's the second worse thing that can happen to you.  
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