+1 on what Andrew said. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with stopping a felony in process especially if it’s your property.

“The guy in the car gets out and says something like "No it's my car!" and proceeds to pop the trunk and dig through the junk I have in back.” If it’s his car why is the alarm going off? If he decides that your house and wife are his too should you just stand aside and let the authorities handle it. I see nothing wrong with confronting this low-life.

This post has really gotten to me. This was a situation that could have gone to very, very bad in an instant.

IMO, if you are going to have a gun for personal defense you must be prepared to use it. If you are prepared to use it, you must be prepared to point it at someone. If you are prepared to point it at someone, you must be prepared to pull the trigger. If you are prepared to pull the trigger, you must be prepared that the bullet will strike a vital spot and the person you pointed the gun at will die. Again, this is my opinion and how I deal with the responsibility of carrying.

I’m not saying that each time you carry you will take a life. I am saying that each time you carry you must be mentally prepared that a situation could evolve where you may have to use the firearm you have chosen to carry and the outcome could be the ending of a life. I would welcome feed back on how others think about this.

I carry to protect myself and my loved ones. Not to protect my stuff. Again, this is my opinion. Legal issues aside, I would have a real hard time dealing with it if I were to take a life because some BG was stealing the stereo in my car (which has bad AM reception anyway). Or the change in the ashtray, or the jumper cables in the trunk or even the car itself.

And I think the sadder part is the BGs know this. They know they probably wont get shot for going into a car. They know they can probably bluff their way out of it. They know they can probably run away before the cops get there. They know the cops probably don’t want to bother with arresting a guy who “might have stolen something” even if there wasn’t anything of value to steel.

It’s late, you’re tired, you just woke up, the siren on your car is blaring, you go outside to see a guy in your property, the adrenalin starts pumping and you have a pistol pointed at the guy. Shit! This could have ended very, very bad for all parties involved.

This type of situation happening in my home is another story. The distances are closer, the avenues of retreat are fewer so I disagree with an argument that property is property and it’s all the same thing.


+1 on gyrfalcon’s last line.

Biggest lesson learned:

Don't confront people and just call the police.

I would change it to say If you are safe, don’t confront people and just call the police.

I haven't made up my mind on this one yet...

I fully agree with



I also fully agree with telling someone to knock it off if they are trying to steal/deface/destroy my stuff.

Tough situation.

Gentlemen, does your assessment of the situation differ if the car's owner emerges from his house (1) with gun in hand or (2) with gun concealed?

in a situation where everyone walks away unharmed, it's hard to imagine a better outcome.

there could certainly be differences in how you get there, but each difference comes with a new variable. this story, and the choices involved, ended up hurting NO ONE. in your critiques, don't lose sight of that.

when you think of a DGU (a term i don't like), you have to remember they are dynamic. each choice you make changes the dynamic and brings in new variables. you cannot say "if i do "x" they will do "y". fact is, you don't know. you can only do your level best given the circumstances and the short amount of time you have to reach your decisions.

let's be mindul of the fact that even if we would have done things differently, when the outcome is all parties walking away unharmed, it's a WIN. it's pretty murky water trying to find some other way to slice that pie.

What's wrong with yelling at someone to stop breaking the law?

Here's a scenario: Would if Falcon would have walked out of his house carrying a baseball bat while also concealing a handgun? Or maybe pepper spray while concealing a gun?

Would it be appropiate to approach the BG with pepper spray while also carrying a handgun? Why couldn't Falcon demand the bad guy leave and if he doesn't, just give him a squirt of pepper. If the bg attacks Falcon use your gun in self-defense.

When do we get to the part where the suggestion is made to fire a couple of warning shots into the air while screaming "I'm going to get you!"?

I do not remember any advice during my carry course about an armed confrontation with someone rifling through my car. If I were to do so, and the perp decided to challenge me in return, at what point does my duty to retreat start? If there is a point when I have a duty to retreat, what the hell was I doing out there with a firearm in my hand to begin with?

Should we be able to draw down on someone doing over $1000 damage to flower beds? How about someone stealing your mail (Federal offense)? How about a reckless driver because one might think he is putting neighborhood children (it's always the children) in bodily harm?

I simply cannot imagine the situation I would find myself in if I fired upon that same perp going through my car. What if indeed the fellow did own an identical auto parked just one block over in a similar parking spot? Drunks have been known to enter houses they thought were their own. This might have been a similar situation.

The short version of my carry class was that you never draw or point your weapon unless you intend to use it - and that use must be a last resort to prevent death or bodily harm (not an auto body, by the way).

I am rather uncomfortable with the actions taken. Thank God it all came out well. I opt for calling the police and giving them the very best information/description I could.

The perp, after being confronted by the homeowner opens the trunk, grabs the tire iron and starts walking toward the home owner menacingly tapping the tire iron on his other palm while saying "No it's my car!" followed by, “and that’s my house, my woman is in there and I am gonna get it on”.

When the OP said:

We left a protecting property scenario and went to a self defense scenario. I think it’d be useful to almost think of these as two separate events. There is the car burglary in progress scenario and the felon approaching a homeowner on his property, menacingly, after repeated request that the felon leave scenario. At the point that the OP drew and pointed, it was abotu defending himself. His property had already been violated. Dude was making sure that his body wasn't violated as well & he was straight up right to do so.

At the point the perp changes his actions which put you onto the chain of self defense if you will.

Instead of simply explaining the mistake or leaving, if he places you in a position by his own actions where you
1) Fear GBH / Death
2) where retreat is not practical
3) Where no lesser force will do
and 4) where you are a reluctant participant (Not the aggressor)

Since you are not the aggressor, you're one link up. Take pains not to be seen as an aggressor.

Next we approach the GBH/Death angle. If he produces a weapon or charges you ..., that's met ...
Retreat ... you're not required to turn your back on an attacker . You should retreat and get distance / cover / concealment if you can safely do so.

If you're being charged with a weapon, IT could be argued that no lessor force would do.

sure would be nice not to be involved at all but at some point, ou acted reasonably and the perp chose to escalate the matter...


Thankfully, in this case, the perp chose to leave

This is quite literally the reason why I got contact lenses before I got my permit. I got the extended wear kind you keep in for a month or so, then throw out and put a new pair in the next morning. Thus there is one night a month that I will not be able to see until I put on my glasses.

So my one suggestion out of all of this is: get extended wear contacts, if you can.

So you yell at the BG
"Stop what you are doing and get out of the car"
He says
"No thank you, I'm stealing your radio"

I'm 5'3" and weigh 120 lbs. and have no physical defense/fight training.

BG is 5'3" and weighs 120 lbs.

What the hell are my options?

Am I going to fight him for the radio?
Hit him with a baseball bat for the radio?
Shoot him for the radio?
Call the cops?

I have time to go back in my house to get my gun and then go back outside to yell at the BG some more and I'm still an unwilling participant?

**I had a comment that was a bit off the wall so I took it out.**

Who said that?

I can see both sides of the issue. Stay inside and stay safe. Go out and do not allow the BG to intimidate you into allow him to steal your stuff. IMO the safest thing to do would to stay in and allow the police to handle it but, should we always follow the safest plan of action? When do we stand up to evil and when do we play it safe?

You misinterpreted what you heard, or got bad instruction. There are many instances where it appropriate to draw but not fire, and it is extremely dangerous to get into the mindset of "it cam out, so it has to go bang."

I agree there are times to draw, point and not HAVE to shoot but I would think (my opinion only) it is far more dangerous to get into the mind set of "I'm going to draw and point at that BG just to scare him". Give me a couple examples to help me see your point.