Moby Clarke I don't have a problem with open carry. It's you RIGHT to do so and mine. I do sometimes carry in the open. But however there is some who feels that you or anyone else should not exercise there right's because it don't feel right or look right.

There is a fairly valid flip side (IMHO) to this though. we all ultimately wear a firearm as a deterrent (I would guess). We hope that we will never have to fire it, and as a deterrent if you are carrying concealed; it is only effective once a potentially life threatening encounter has begun. What of it's deterrent effect before encounters begin.

For me, I have a hard time picturing a scenario where a BG is going to intentionally put himself into a dangerous(for him) situation for something as easy to get as a firearm. They could more easily beat up unarmed people, and take the money they get to buy one. Keep in mind these are people just like anyone else, they would rather have the odds stacked in their favor in any encounter, and a firearm is just too much of a variable.

And to me LEO situations don't really apply, as this isn't an encounter of the BG's choosing. They are somewhere they don't want to be, and out of desperation they grab a weapon that is available.

*still not entirely sure where I stand on the open carry debate*

We can speculate on these possible scenarios till the end of time.
For every "What about if....", there's a counterpoint.
What I'd be more interested in is actual data- maybe from some states that have allowed shall issue for a few more years than we've had it.

Some states require concealed carry, some require open carry, some allow either. I'd be interested in hearing about those instances where someone open carrying was "taken out" because their gun was visible, where the person taken out wasn't a cop or bad guy- just an average Joe Citizen minding his/her own business. And I'd be willing to speculate that in some cases someone may have been shot regardless of the gun. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I realize the discussion has moved around to various aspects on the topic & I am just now getting around to adding my two cents.

In PA, it is a concealed license. . . the permit grants you the ability to carry without having it visible. . . I have heard that open carry requires no permit at all. While in PA, the POV that I developed, stemmed from observation - back home in IL there was no way to carry, just getting your hunting rifle to the gamelands legally was an ordeal the likes of which makes Sarah Brady very happy. There was fairly rampant violent crime, just like there seems to be everywhere else that criminals are assured a disarmed victim. In PA, CCW permit was $20, no requirement for a class, same phone in background check used (about everywhere) for purchases was used to find eligibility for permit. . . $20 & 20 minutes and ya walk out of the county courthouse legal to CCW. Anybody can do that. For the criminal thinking about knocking over a convinence store, the concern isn't just with the cashier, but with me over by the chips or grandma who may have a big honking .44 in that massive purse. . . . anybody could be carrying at any time & the criminals just don't know. Society seems more polite, there is less road rage, life in PA is good. I think part of that is that CCW is so easy, and so widespread. Violent crime still happens, but seems to be more isolated to people who are less likely to be armed due to chemical dependancy issues and socio-economic hardship.

All that is just a long way of explaining that I feel that Concealed carry does a greater good for society by creating that mystery in a criminal's head. . . "if I threaten citizen X with a screwdriver, will I get shot?" in PA it is a question that every violent offender needs to ask themselves regarding every potentiall vicitm & thereby extending greater protection to all of society. I think open carry offers as much protection to the individual but lacks the blanket effect of CCW.

But there's a strange calculus to that, Macx:

It may take a minority carrying openly to effectively remind the miscreants how many of us must be carrying concealed....