Ok, I've taken my CCW class about 6 months ago and have a question thats kinda in the grey area....

I know that I can protect myself, my family and my friends from an imamit (sp?) threat but what if I was in a store, mall or a event and there was a not only a threat but a action.... mall shooting, bank shooting, Ect.?

If I see a BG with a AK47 and just shooting in the crowd, do I run or do I help save the innocent?

Bri

You have the right to shoot in the defense of others. The real question is should you?

If anyone says yes I would no matter what is just plain BS. In the end, it will come down to the situation you are in. Examples...

1. Not close to the shooting... NO. I will get the family and friends out first.
2. The shooter is in the way of us leaving or actively shooting near me... Yes.
3. By myself would be more likely to get involved but not for sure.

In the end, you will do what is in your interest to do. Good question and one all of us have thought about.

Its more of a legal question....

For example.... Mall shooting at (let say) Burnsville shopping center. I'm outside of JCPennys and hear multi gun shots and people screaming at Dicks sporting goods. Can I legally go towards the BG to protect the public.

* I'm not in inamit danger
* I was "looking" for trouble
* Had a clear path from harm


Morally I would (I would like to believe) but what about the legal outcome?

Bri

Perp in the mall blasting away with an AK47 you will probably be ok helping out; but you never know. It is a roll of the dice. Another problem is if you shoot and miss and kill someone else. You are on the hook regardless of your intent. What if the mall shooting was a movie set and you shoot and kill the leading man? - You will not be able to pull up those baggy jeans, straighten your cap and yell "MY BAD DAWG!" and go home. You will be charged with murder.
If it were me I think I would pass and leave the mall. The mall has security guards to handle things like this.

I hope your P2C instructor talked about defense of others. The general rule (my rule) is family only.

(wiping eyes) Whew, thanks for the morning chuckle!

As to the OP, you may shoot to protect someone else from death or GBH. All the above issues are valid, though.

Personal rule? If I'm with family, I'm getting them out via the safest route that is available. I'll only shoot if I have to go through the bad guy to get them out.

If I'm in the thick of it, an active shooter is causing casualties, and I have a clear shot? I'd take it. I couldn't live with myself otherwise. BUT...that is a very personal decision. It is entirely ok (and probably more intelligent) to cover your own ass and get out.

It's a nasty decision no matter how you look at it.

-Mark

Just doing my job.

These types of discussions seem to come up all the time on the various gun forums. Most of the bolder talk seems to come from the younger crowd that have never been in the military or have never seen any kind of real life dangerous situations. Most of their "experience" comes from TV and movies.

The truth is, if you are in such a situation it will probably be totally unexpected and may very well scare you badly. At that time your training and experience should take over. If you have neither, good luck!

Best advice, run or take cover, save yourself and loved ones if they are with you. Never run towards the gunfire, others are paid to do that.

You're not Dirty Harry because of your permit.

Never shoot unless your life is directly threatened.

With the laws and courts the way they are, I'd never risk it to become a hero. Then likely you'll get sued by the bg family, & charged by the City prosecutor.

Never pull that trigger unless you're certain you will die if you don't.

What if the family isn't by your side at the time the crap hits the ventilation?
Example: I'm there with my 20 year old daughter. She goes to Kohl's, I go to Sear's ( or other part of same store). GUNFIRE ! What then? Do I try for cell phone contact, trying to find her location. Do we meet up or do I tell her to bail out of the store shortest route and meet me back at the car.
This scares me more than if she/family were at my side!
I'm sorry if this seems a hijack, but ...

Along with this being a usual question on the forums, you've got the usual replies.

For the record? I'm not young (well, maybe next to a few of ya ), but not "old" either. Thanks to employment I had in the past, I've looked down the wrong end of both a knife and a firearm. I know what my personal reactions were. The fine upstanding drunken lady with the knife ended up with a broken wrist (and I ended up getting sued), and the gun didn't go bang when it should have (different incidents).

The results?

1) I know that I won't run away screaming. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH RUNNING, MIND YOU, AND IN FACT I WOULD ADVISE IT. I'm just not wired that way. Granted, my jobs involved heading toward the idiots causing the problem...I just didn't know they were armed until I confronted them.

2) I attend church regularly. I'm normally not all that lucky of an individual, so I think someone must have been looking out for me.

-Mark

The 'shooter in the mall' scenario should be talked about ahead of time at the dinner table in the same way we should discuss what to do if the house catches on fire. Family members need to be able to function and think independently. People cannot be protected 24x7.

Also remember that if you pull that trigger, it is going to cost you thousands of dollars and possibly your freedom (even if it winds up justifiable you will probably be detained for a while).

The rule I try to go by is this - if the scenario is such that it is better to shoot than go to jail in financial ruin, it is probably a legitimate use of force. If you question it at all, there are probably better alternatives like running away.

Good rules. And you're right, assume that ANY use of force will cost you money and possibly freedom. I'll never recoup the legal fees from my use of force, and that was without a weapon, not using deadly force.

-Mark

You do what your conscience and the circumstances dictate. You are not obligated to help. If you are able you get yourself to safety in most circumstances I would advise don’t try to be a hero, but be a good witness. If the circumstances are such that you must get involved for your immediate or someone in close proximity’s safety that may dictate your intervention in the situation. I don’t know that I would advise running into the shooting if I were nowhere near it when it starts. This question is truly UP TO YOU and nobody else can tell you what you must do. You might want to talk to your clergy to define what your moral obligation might be in their eyes but I doubt they would say you MUST intervene.

It is always good to have a meeting place if you and your family are separated in an emergency situation. If it were me I would be trying to find my daughter in the last place I knew she was at. If I couldn’t I would head to the car as our meeting place. If that is not possible because emergency personnel have blocked it off go where you can and try calling her on the cell phone. That’s about all you can do.