So it is illegal for us to lie to any LEO, but they are allowed to lie to us in order to gain a confession? Is this actually the case, or have I been watching too much Law & Order?

No, you've got it exactly right. That's why the most important and repeated lesson in David Gross's carry class last weekend was "STFU!" (And no, he didn't abbreviate, or hold back.)

I just love double standards, do you...

Just another reinforcer that cops are not my friend until they PROVE otherwise.

Where does David advertise his classes? I wouldnt mind going to one at some point...

You mean like

Peasants must tell all they know to the police (or be considered guilty) right after a hormonally charged (yes kiddies adrenalin is a hormone) violent encounter. This is so the facts can be established while they are fresh in your mind.

Police officers having come through the same highly charged situation are given three days of administrative leave to clear their heads and remember the exact details of the encounter.

You mean that kind of double standard?

To find David's class, go to the AACFI web site, and search for classes in 55052. His will be down the list a little bit, in Kilkenny, MN.

http://aacfi.com/courses/courses.php?st ... 52#results

Had the timing been different, I would have been equally likely to choose Professor Joe Olson's class. Getting to take a carry class from the guys who helped write the law (after fighting for over a decade to get it passed) is an experience not to be missed.

EDITED TO ADD:
Joe has a class on 5/31 in Roseville. Send a PM to kimberman to see if there's still space.

Thanks Andrew!

Precisely. It's a crock of s**t.

That's why it's good to have a recorder running. Cops are allowed to lie to you. When they get on the stand and lie about what they said to you, well, there was actually one indicted for perjury recently. The recording was crucial.

Lying can be good police work, so they teach it. But there's a difference between "lying" when working as a secret agent man, and lying on a police report or in court. At least, there's supposed to be.

This reminds me of a video I watched not too long ago, although it talks about the 5th amendment, the reasoning is applicable to the 4th. That is that volunteering information or an opportunity to collect information that could be used against you will never help you.

Pt1 - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4885833865
Pt2 - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9458915912

So they can lie *to* you ("Your buddy just told us everything, you should probably confess so I can tell the prosecutor to go easy on you...") but they can't, in theory, lie *about* you. ("Suspect threw a punch at me, which is why I tasered the sh!t out of him...")

Dirk

I prosecuted a cop for perjury years ago.

It is a must watch for those who haven't yet!

It's long however has substance and is very informational.

Good posting Mannix.

No, they can lie about you (your first example is lying about your buddy). They can't lie *to* a court, or their department in official records, etc. Or at least, they're not supposed to, they obviously can.