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 1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King shooting 
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 Post subject: 1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King shooting
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:54 pm 
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/965735.html


One man was killed and another seriously wounded in a shootout inside a Miami Burger King on Tuesday, officials said.

Police said a man wearing a ski mask walked into the store at Biscayne Boulevard and 54th Street and demanded money from a clerk.

A customer, who has a concealed weapons permit, pulled a gun, said Officer Jeff Giordano, a Miami police spokesman.

The customer and robber exchanged fire.

The robber was shot dead at the scene.

The customer, who had several gunshot wounds, was taken to Ryder Trauma Center in serious but stable condition, said Lt. Ignatius Carroll, a Miami Fire Rescue spokesman.

At about 4 p.m., officials got several 911 calls reporting people shot inside the Burger King.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:32 pm 
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One less bad guy.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Almost one less good guy too, just to save a Burger King from a few dollar loss. Granted we don't know the details yet. Maybe he or his family was directly threatened.

It would be an injustice to my family to risk my life to protect the till at a BK.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:46 pm 
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Just out of curiosity... How would you know if the guy with a gun decides to start shooting you wouldn't be the first one he fires on? Thats like having a deer walk up to your deer stand while you're standing there with your dick in your hand pissing out the side...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:30 pm 
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flyt100 wrote:
Almost one less good guy too, just to save a Burger King from a few dollar loss. Granted we don't know the details yet. Maybe he or his family was directly threatened. It would be an injustice to my family to risk my life to protect the till at a BK.


Flyt100, I do not know if I can agree with you here. In my opinion both he and his family were directly threatened by the very presence of the bad guy plus a brandished gun. I have worked in the food industry most of my life and too often you hear about a crazed person walking into a McD, BK, KFC, or wherever and just start shooting.

If anything, stories like this remind me to stop being lazy and carry everywhere - not just where I think I might expect trouble. It also makes me put away the Walther for about a week to carry the SIG - but that would be a different thread!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:51 pm 
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You want double tap with that? :D
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Flyt100, I do not know if I can agree with you here. In my opinion both he and his family were directly threatened by the very presence of the bad guy plus a brandished gun.

I agree with Ronin069.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Biscayne and 54th is a pretty good neighbor hood if I remember right, Last time I was there, I think it was right down the street from the Miami Shores CC and Doral, where the PGA plays every year, is like 54th and Palmetto. Not your usual low life dive area.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:09 pm 
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I don't know that we actually disagree.

If I'm in the middle of it it's one thing. If he isn't paying any attention to me, and I'm by the exit, it's another thing.

We'd have to be there to really know if we feel threatened. It's one of those "have to be there split second decision" things. A million different variables.

I just thought it was food for thought. Getting shot several times is almost the worst outcome you could imagine.

I'm not saying he made a wrong decision, or that I would have made a different one (we barely know anything about it, and even so, different people make different decisions).


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:29 pm 
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The headline in the Miami Herald reads:
Quote:
1 dead, one injured in Miami Burger King shooting


Drudge linked to the same story and he had it written as:
Quote:
"Armed customer kills robber at Burger King..."


I like the second one better


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:53 pm 
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I hope this guy makes it :!: :!: :!:

Without knowing all the facts, I think it is really hard to say what I would have done. If I was out of the way, I think I would stay out of it and let him have some of BK's money but with my hand on my XD to be as ready as possible if he goes bizerk.



I do believe this is just one more example of why I carry everywhere :!:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:38 am 
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If a robber has his gun out, he sort of has the drop on everybody. A TV style gunfight is a good way to get killed or shot several times, as happened.

A smart warrior would excercise diplomatic tactics until he could get behind cover. Unless you can do a perfect melon shot you'll almost certainly get shot in a close range gunfight.

It would be interesting to see video of this incident. It probably shows two guys blazing away, getting hit, but continuing to shoot each other. A gunfight is not like a boxing match. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:51 am 
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flyt100 wrote:
I don't know that we actually disagree.

If I'm in the middle of it it's one thing. If he isn't paying any attention to me, and I'm by the exit, it's another thing.


- Interesting thought - I make a point to sit near exits when in a public building, if something goes down, plan A is to be out the door; especially if with the family - they are primary focus. On the other hand, if someone comes in brandishing a gun, do you (anyone) feel a duty, unrealistic or not, to attempt to stop him? Taking any legal qualifications out of the equation, if you got out the back door and he went on a spree killing a number of people would you feel guilty for not trying to do more before escaping?

DISCUSS!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:25 am 
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Lawful self defense, clearly enough. But wise? I think it's hard to know without having been there or seeing a tape. Was the clerk a close friend of the customer? Did the robber threaten everyone in the room? Was the robber agitated enough that it seemed likely that he would not leave once he had the money, as might be the case if the clerk had just made a drop and there was little cash in the drawer? Did the customer pull a gun to prepare for self defense should the situation deteriorate and have that draw the attention of the robber?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:42 am 
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Not sure which link, but somewhere they said the perp and the permit holder got into an argument; presumably about the fact that the place was being knocked over. I'm wondering if the good guy made some verbal commands that the BG did not heed and the gunfire ensued.

Also, my understanding is that this is NOT a desirable part of town.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Possibly the BG made an overt verbal threat when he demanded the money. From the report he had a gun, likely it was pointed at someone. Could it be that the GG was diverting the ominous threat away from what he perceived to be the vulnerable store employee? Maybe the GG drew his weapon and demanded the surrender of the BG; that might explain any argument between them. It will be very interesting to know what the actual course of events was.

Surely the circumstances of the confrontation weren't ideal. But then again it's not easy to change partners in the middle of the dance.

One thing for certain is the BG chose a very risky occupation and paid for his decision with his life. Any guesses as to how much his potential take would be from a fast food restaraunt? I'm thinking he gave up his life very cheaply.

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