Mythbusters and the .500 magnum...
Author |
Message |
DeanC
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:47 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
|
Dick Unger wrote: It's unreasonably dangerous to have that much blast coming out of the side of the gun.
All revolvers do that. It's a design necessity. This was a case of user ignorance.
I guess everyone who has gotten "railroad tracks" on their thumb from the slide of a semi-auto has a case too?
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:54 am |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
DeanC wrote: Dick Unger wrote: It's unreasonably dangerous to have that much blast coming out of the side of the gun. All revolvers do that. It's a design necessity. This was a case of user ignorance. I guess everyone who has gotten "railroad tracks" on their thumb from the slide of a semi-auto has a case too?
Well I'm not a pistol guy. But I've never heard of an injury like that from sideblast, until the 5000/460. My 44 mag does not do that.
Obviously "design necessity" is the company's side of the story. I bet they'll change it or discontinue it.
|
|
|
|
|
Nords
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:31 am |
|
Journeyman Member |
|
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:38 am Posts: 71
|
I guess revolvers will have to go back to this design
People need to learn not to put their hands in dangerous places. Pretty soon we will need warnings to never put your face in the way of the end of barrels when firing.
|
|
|
|
|
Traveler
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:44 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm Posts: 845 Location: Saint Paul
|
Dick Unger wrote: DeanC wrote: Dick Unger wrote: It's unreasonably dangerous to have that much blast coming out of the side of the gun. All revolvers do that. It's a design necessity. This was a case of user ignorance. I guess everyone who has gotten "railroad tracks" on their thumb from the slide of a semi-auto has a case too? Well I'm not a pistol guy. But I've never heard of an injury like that from sideblast, until the 5000/460. My 44 mag does not do that. Obviously "design necessity" is the company's side of the story. I bet they'll change it or discontinue it.
Without a cylinder gap the cylinder would not revolve. If memory serves, the British had a complicated revolver design in which the cylinder advanced forward on firing and mated with a tapered barrel end. If that design would have had merit I assume it would have been copied. It has not. Gas blast from the cylinder gap has been problematic with some calibers and some hot loads for a long time, not just with the .460/.500 magnum selections. Top straps have been cut in the past by hot gasses coming from revolver cylinder gaps, and I believe it possible for bystanders to be hit with some powder residue and gasses if standing too close.
In any event, it is just not wise to put one's fingers anywhere ahead of the trigger when firing a revolver. It is also not wise to stand directly next to, or ahead of, anyone firing a firearm
|
|
|
|
|
mrokern
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:51 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
|
Dick Unger wrote: "User error"?
I don't think so. It's unreasonably dangerous to have that much blast coming out of the side of the gun. It's forseeable that a shooter will use a two hand hold and have a body part ih the way. Regardless of shat the instruction manual says.
Should be an easy lawsuit I would think. Liability is a slam dunk, the picture shows plenty of pain and suffering and the hand is permanantly disabled and will affect any activity he uses his hand for. Liability plus damages equals profitable lawsuit for a plaintiff.
It's probably a tough fix. The tighter the gap the more directed the blast. And the gap will open in time.
I've wanted one since they came out. But I guess I'll wait.
Yeah, user error.
I don't agree that because someone pulled a stupid that they deserve money. I do agree that somebody is going to try it, and unfortunately will get a settlement, but I'm sick of subsidizing stupid via higher insurance (and therefore product) prices just because somebody put a body part where it doesn't belong. Next thing you know, chefs will sue knife makers for making their knives too sharp when if they'd kept their thumbs away from the blade in the first place...
Not attacking you, Dick...I just think we've got too many morons in this world that think they deserve money for doing dumb shit. Now, if the cylinder blows up, by all means call a lawyer.
-Mark
|
|
|
|
|
DeanC
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:39 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
|
Dick Unger wrote: My 44 mag does not do that.
I'll wager it does. I double-dog dare you to test it with your own hand.
OK, wait, I can't wish that on anybody. Try this: tear a strip of paper about two inches wide and 12~18" long, Using a full power factory .357 Magnum, or higher, drape this strip across the top strap of the revolver so it hangs down roughly centered on the gap. Then fire the gun. The results usually turn the paper into confetti.
.
The cylinder gap is the reason revolving cylinder rifles never caught on. Imagine having that gap right by your nose.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
|
|
|
|
|
Rip Van Winkle
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 2:05 pm |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:36 pm Posts: 440 Location: W. St. Paul
|
Quote: Well I'm not a pistol guy. But I've never heard of an injury like that from sideblast, until the 5000/460. My 44 mag does not do that.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T_TNvPhTiB8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T_TNvPhTiB8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
_________________ I will never apologize for being an American! http://post435gunclub.org/cmp.htm cmpofficer@post435gunclub.org http://mrra.org 6 down, 24 to go.
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:02 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
I didn't know that was supposed to happen. I knew it might. I always worried about a case failure blowing the gas bac instead of this stuff.
My son and his friends like to borrow my 44. I think I'll make some 44 Special ammo for them to shoot.
Does a big Freedom Arms gun leak gas like this Smith and Wesson? I don't really want the hassel of a 460 after seeing this. [/i]
|
|
|
|
|
rudy
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:19 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:19 pm Posts: 38 Location: Mankato
|
Traveler wrote: Dick Unger wrote: DeanC wrote: Dick Unger wrote: It's unreasonably dangerous to have that much blast coming out of the side of the gun. All revolvers do that. It's a design necessity. This was a case of user ignorance. I guess everyone who has gotten "railroad tracks" on their thumb from the slide of a semi-auto has a case too? Well I'm not a pistol guy. But I've never heard of an injury like that from sideblast, until the 5000/460. My 44 mag does not do that. Obviously "design necessity" is the company's side of the story. I bet they'll change it or discontinue it. Without a cylinder gap the cylinder would not revolve. If memory serves, the British had a complicated revolver design in which the cylinder advanced forward on firing and mated with a tapered barrel end. If that design would have had merit I assume it would have been copied. It has not. Gas blast from the cylinder gap has been problematic with some calibers and some hot loads for a long time, not just with the .460/.500 magnum selections. Top straps have been cut in the past by hot gasses coming from revolver cylinder gaps, and I believe it possible for bystanders to be hit with some powder residue and gasses if standing too close. In any event, it is just not wise to put one's fingers anywhere ahead of the trigger when firing a revolver. It is also not wise to stand directly next to, or ahead of, anyone firing a firearm
You're thinking of the mosin nagant revolver: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagant_M1895 There's a video on youtube of a guy that has a silenced one--only works because of the gas-seal. Pretty neat little revolver.
|
|
|
|
|
Dave Pendleton
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 7:42 pm |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 4:05 pm Posts: 312 Location: SE Metro
|
See? Guns are dangerous and should be banned.
|
|
|
|
|
Greg
|
Post subject: Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:08 pm |
|
Forum Moderator |
|
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:13 pm Posts: 874 Location: Minneapolis
|
I've got an older, three screw, Ruger Blackhawk in .357, and one in .30 Carbine. The 357 will at least hurt you with the side blast, the .30 Carbine will take a finger right off, and clear people from the shooting positions on both sides of me.
If you want a good illustration just take a paper sandwich bag and poke the barrel thru it so the revolver is bagged but open in back where your hand enters. WEAR A GLOVE! Now fire...confetti!
_________________ Diesel Boats (and Tube Radios) Forever!
|
|
|
|
|
Selurcspi
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:39 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
|
Dick Unger wrote: DeanC wrote: Dick Unger wrote: It's unreasonably dangerous to have that much blast coming out of the side of the gun. All revolvers do that. It's a design necessity. This was a case of user ignorance. I guess everyone who has gotten "railroad tracks" on their thumb from the slide of a semi-auto has a case too? Well I'm not a pistol guy. But I've never heard of an injury like that from sideblast, until the 5000/460. My 44 mag does not do that. Obviously "design necessity" is the company's side of the story. I bet they'll change it or discontinue it.
Dick, 357 and 44 Mags have been causing side blast injuries since their inception. I've seen several first hand and the results of many more days after the event. Hign pressure hot gasses cut the steel of the gun, we should expect them to cut flesh, kind of like we should expect hot coffee to scald us, but that's another story.
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
|
|
|
|
|
DeanC
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:57 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
|
Maybe if they required the manufacturer to put some gory, bloody pictures on the gun's box at the store people would get the message that shooting revolvers is serious business.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
|
|
|
|
|
ironbear
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:22 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:08 pm Posts: 546 Location: Roseville
|
Dick Unger wrote: Does a big Freedom Arms gun leak gas like this Smith and Wesson? I don't really want the hassel of a 460 after seeing this.
It's not the gun, it's the pressure. The .460 S&W is a magnumized version of the .454 Casull which is itself a magnumized .45 Colt. If I hold my FA up to the light, I can see a gap of several thousandths, through which hot gasses undoubtedly leak during firing. As a side note, I understand that this is why revolvers generally cannot be effectively suppressed.
FWIW, I've heard of FAS instructors holding a hot dog up next to the cylinder, during firing, as a fairly graphic example of what could happen to a finger...
_________________ You can't save the Earth unless you're willing to make other people sacrifice. ~Dogbert~
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:38 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
Greg wrote: I've got an older, three screw, Ruger Blackhawk in .357, and one in .30 Carbine. The 357 will at least hurt you with the side blast, the .30 Carbine will take a finger right off, and clear people from the shooting positions on both sides of me.
If you want a good illustration just take a paper sandwich bag and poke the barrel thru it so the revolver is bagged but open in back where your hand enters. WEAR A GLOVE! Now fire...confetti!
Well the 460 has even greater presure than either a 357 or a 30 carbine. So I guess that's the reason for these dramatic injuries. No big revolvers for me I guess.
|
|
|
|
|
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|