Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:36 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Firearm Repair Shipping 
Author Message
 Post subject: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:59 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 373
I shipped out a Smith and Wesson a pistol that had the receiver crack for repairs. It was using factory ammunition, and the crack appeared to be caused by recoil stressing a defect in the frame.

So after a few months they called me and left a message that they need an FFL dealer to ship it back to. According to the customer service representative, Minnesota state law prohibits shipping the firearm back to me.

From what I understood firearms manufactures could ship firearms back to the person who sent it to them in for repairs. In fact Ruger has done this for me in the last few years.

I'm not too keen on paying an FFL dealer money to transfer this gun back to me. Any advice?

_________________

In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:10 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 5270
Location: Minneapolis
Yeah that sounds odd.

I seem to recall people even getting replacement guns shipped right to them. I think the Mfg destroyed the old gun and used the same serial number on the replacement.

_________________
I am defending myself... in favor of that!


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:18 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm
Posts: 2264
Location: Eden Prairie
Makes absolutely no sense. I just got my Smith pistol back a few weeks ago after sending it. No FFL needed anywhere.

Call them at 800-331-0852, ext 2904. It's how I tracked my order.

-Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:46 pm 
Activist Extraordinaire
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
That doesn't sound right. I sent a Kel-Tec to a FFL gunsmith in Texas for some custom work when I was still living in Eagan, and he shipped it right back by UPS next day air. No problems whatsovever. I've never heard of such a state requirement in MN.

_________________
Respectfully,
Doug

"Some Things Are Worth Fighting For"
Judas Priest


Last edited by reaver3 on Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:28 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:52 pm
Posts: 407
Location: Northern Burbs
DeanC wrote:
Yeah that sounds odd.

I seem to recall people even getting replacement guns shipped right to them. I think the Mfg destroyed the old gun and used the same serial number on the replacement.


That was my M&P15T. S&W destroyed the old lower because it was so out of spec and then shipped directly to me my new rifle with the old upper and new lower. The new lower, however, had a brand new serial number. They told me they don't put the old serial numbers back on the replaced guns. I've heard of that happening from other manufactureres before though too. There's a federal law that allows a manufacturer to ship back to original owner. I'm not aware of MN having changed the rules in the interim. Call S&W back and ask for a MN state statute number. When they can't reference a source, ask they ship directly back to you as they have done in the past and know that they can do still today. I think you just got someone in shipping/repair that doesn't understand the law or S&W's own policies.

_________________
Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:32 pm 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
Almost certainly the case.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:42 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:52 pm
Posts: 407
Location: Northern Burbs
I think it's 18 U.S.C. sec. 922(a)(2)(A) that provides the exception. The text follows. I have to run and do something else quick, but will try to devote a little more research time to this later in case there is more than just sec. 922, unless someone else chimes in first.


18 U.S.C. sec 922:

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(1) for any person—

(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or

(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;

(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—

(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; . . . .

_________________
Mark


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:14 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 373
onebohemian wrote:
all S&W back and ask for a MN state statute number. When they can't reference a source, ask they ship directly back to you as they have done in the past and know that they can do still today. I think you just got someone in shipping/repair that doesn't understand the law or S&W's own policies.


Thanks, I actually did that but they had left for today... Looks like I'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out exactly what's happening.

_________________

In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:14 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 373
According to the S&W representative I talked to today; he stated that the ATF has a list of States where an FFL transfer is required when a receiver/serial number is changed out. Minnesota is on this list for whatever reason.

He wasn't exactly forthcoming when I asked what sort of publication or notice this list was in, and if I could get a copy.

_________________

In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:36 am 
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:02 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Saint Paul
That seems odd since ownership is not changing that they would need to send the gun back to a FFL. I guess the only repair experience I've had I went through the dealer since it was under warranty. I had purchased a Taurus PT-145 .45 ACP from Sportsmen's Warehouse. That model had a particular defect which would cause part of the polymer at the very top of the backstrap to crack and break off in small pieces. I went to Sportsmen's Warehouse and they took the gun and gave me a receipt. A few weeks later I got a call that my gun was back. I went and picked it up. I wasn't charged for anything. The repair and shipping both ways were taken care of.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:31 pm 
Journeyman Member

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:14 pm
Posts: 84
When my P-11 had to go back to Kel-Tec for repair, they shipped it back directly to me without any problems.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:00 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 373
MTinMN wrote:
When my P-11 had to go back to Kel-Tec for repair, they shipped it back directly to me without any problems.


How long ago was this, and did they replace the receiver? Personally I'll let the weapon sit at S&W, contact the ATF, or anything else to get this changed if it's not actually legal or an added stipulation S&W is enacting.

Minnesota State Statue 624.7132 seems to allow this. Subd. 12.Exclusions.

Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers:...

(3) the delivery of a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to a person for the purpose of repair, reconditioning or remodeling;

_________________

In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:29 pm 
Activist Extraordinaire
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Gyrfalcon,

From your last response, it sounds like they are providing you with a completely different receiver. Is that the case?

_________________
Respectfully,
Doug

"Some Things Are Worth Fighting For"
Judas Priest


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:40 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 373
reaver3 wrote:
Gyrfalcon,

From your last response, it sounds like they are providing you with a completely different receiver. Is that the case?



Yes it is. Federal law: 18 USC Sec. 922 allows manufactures to ship replacement firearms without an FFL to the original owner. The S&W representative agreed with that.

According to them or the ATF list, they're not allowed to do it for Minnesota citizens. I would like to know what law prohibits it.

_________________

In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:47 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:43 am
Posts: 371
Location: Anoka, MN
gyrfalcon wrote:
reaver3 wrote:
Gyrfalcon,

From your last response, it sounds like they are providing you with a completely different receiver. Is that the case?



Yes it is. Federal law: 18 USC Sec. 922 allows manufactures to ship replacement firearms without an FFL to the original owner. The S&W representative agreed with that.

According to them or the ATF list, they're not allowed to do it for Minnesota citizens. I would like to know what law prohibits it.


Yeah, keep asking what document that is - just be honest, you're curious where the ATF is getting the idea that Minnesota residents can't receive their own firearms back directly, since Federal law allows it, and Minnesota law allows it - so you'd like to know the document so you can ask the ATF about it.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 56 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group