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 LEO Carry in MN 
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 Post subject: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:09 am 
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If you are an LEO in MN can you off-duty carry in places like banks, schools, and airports?

Not asking why would you want to, just if you legally can.
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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:46 am 
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Not a LEO, but can answer most of this.

Banks are no different from a permit holder...we can carry in a bank, after all.

Airports are a no-no unless you have an official reason to be armed inside the security area.

Schools, I don't know. I would guess that they can, but I'll wait for one of our friendly LEO members to jump in.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Schools, yes, by statute. Posted businesses, yes, by statute.

Airport sterile area, for state and local generally no unless unless traveling armed while on duty and the employing department a) insists that it's necessary either for prisoner transport or because of an immediate need for access to a weapon upon arrival at the destination, b) and goes through TSA administrative formalities.

Other federally restricted areas vary. Post offices, for example, exempt LEOs from the proscription against carry. I'm not sure about federal buildings in general, or military installations.


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:10 pm 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
Schools, yes, by statute. Posted businesses, yes, by statute.

Airport sterile area, for state and local generally no unless unless traveling armed while on duty and the employing department a) insists that it's necessary either for prisoner transport or because of an immediate need for access to a weapon upon arrival at the destination, b) and goes through TSA administrative formalities.

Other federally restricted areas vary. Post offices, for example, exempt LEOs from the proscription against carry. I'm not sure about federal buildings in general, or military installations.




So your saying by statute off-duty LEO's can carry in schools, business (even if posted No Guns), and Post Offices?



What about banks?
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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:37 pm 
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Anyone with a P2C can carry ina bank so they could also.


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:03 pm 
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Google search "HR 218" or "Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act"


Short Version:

We're exempt from almost all state laws. We can carry, as long as we're sober, just about anywhere off-duty. I'm in my hotel room in Washington,,DC as I write this, armed.

As said, we can't carry on federal installations or airplanes. Hell, we can carry in Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, too.

(It's good to be the King! :lol: )

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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:56 am 
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Quote:
Google search "HR 218" or "Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act"


Short Version:

We're exempt from almost all state laws. We can carry, as long as we're sober, just about anywhere off-duty. I'm in my hotel room in Washington,,DC as I write this, armed.

As said, we can't carry on federal installations or airplanes. Hell, we can carry in Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, too.

(It's good to be the King! :lol: )




Someone said this, are they wrong?

Quote:
Nope.
Forget anything about home state or out of state. LEOSA doesn't specify. No difference.
Whether they can carry in a bank or business depends on the bank or business owner. If they post it no firearms then can't carry there. Those are private entities and only the owners of the entities can prohibit carrying, not the government.
Post offices and schools are generally government entities, therefore the government can prohibit carrying there.

Quote:
And if there in a state that isn't their home state where they work regular CCW applies?
Doesn't matter what the CCW rules are, they don't apply to LEOs and qualified retired LEOs. The ONLY restrictions that apply to LEOs and qualified retired LEOs are those restrictions imposed by the government but only on goverment property and restrictions imposed by private entities on their property.
It doesn't matter if home state or out of state. Home state or out of state, all the same.
As Jon in WV mentioned LEOSA is pretty simple and simply written. Where it gets screwed up is when someone tries interposing their own interpretation and adding things that aren't in it, such as, home state and out of state. Neither are mentioned in LEOSA.


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:43 am 
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usmarine0352 wrote:
Someone said this, are they wrong?

Quote:
Nope.
Forget anything about home state or out of state. LEOSA doesn't specify. No difference.
Whether they can carry in a bank or business depends on the bank or business owner. If they post it no firearms then can't carry there. Those are private entities and only the owners of the entities can prohibit carrying, not the government.
Post offices and schools are generally government entities, therefore the government can prohibit carrying there.

Quote:
And if there in a state that isn't their home state where they work regular CCW applies?
Doesn't matter what the CCW rules are, they don't apply to LEOs and qualified retired LEOs. The ONLY restrictions that apply to LEOs and qualified retired LEOs are those restrictions imposed by the government but only on goverment property and restrictions imposed by private entities on their property.
It doesn't matter if home state or out of state. Home state or out of state, all the same.
As Jon in WV mentioned LEOSA is pretty simple and simply written. Where it gets screwed up is when someone tries interposing their own interpretation and adding things that aren't in it, such as, home state and out of state. Neither are mentioned in LEOSA.


Unless they are referring to another state, yeah, they are wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:17 pm 
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There was a court case on this, related to an off-duty shooting by Colorado officers at a bar in Sturgis, SD. The cops were charged with carrying in a bar (illegal in SD). They were acquitted as the court found that LEOSA trumped the state law.


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:35 pm 
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Fine. Here's one, though. An off-duty guy gets made by the manager of some boutique where he and Mrs. Off-Duty are shopping on a Saturday. The manager asks him to leave, they're posted, etc., Mr. Off-Duty says no, he's a cop. Manager says that's great, but they have a bans-guns policy, and since he and Mrs. Off-Duty aren't there on police business the gun has to go. Mr. Off-Duty continues to declare that he's a cop (when he's working), but the manager wants none of it and is starting to get irritated.

So, who wins (technically)?

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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Sietch wrote:
Fine. Here's one, though. An off-duty guy gets made by the manager of some boutique where he and Mrs. Off-Duty are shopping on a Saturday. The manager asks him to leave, they're posted, etc., Mr. Off-Duty says no, he's a cop. Manager says that's great, but they have a bans-guns policy, and since he and Mrs. Off-Duty aren't there on police business the gun has to go. Mr. Off-Duty continues to declare that he's a cop (when he's working), but the manager wants none of it and is starting to get irritated.

So, who wins (technically)?


Private property - non-official capacity - I would say he has to leave.

But I am not a lawyer.
b

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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:30 pm 
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Quote:
`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--
`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or
`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

The Officers Safety Act says if a business prohibits carry, an officer carrying under this act cannot carry in that establishment.

Quote:
624.714 - Subd. 17.Posting; trespass. (a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. ...

(g) This subdivision does not apply to:
(1) an active licensed peace officer;

State law says that an active licensed peace officer can not be trespassed under the Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act.

But, nothing stops a business owner from kicking anyone they want out for any reason. Except, as already mentioned, law enforcement acting in the course of their duties.


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:10 pm 
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I am a Federal LEO and we can carry under HR 218. The "No Guns" signs does not affect us.
If a store owner sees my firearm and ask me to leave, I declare that I am a Federal LEO. I don't think it ever happen to me yet. However, I got stopped by Local Cops couple of times in the past and I just show my creds and everything is alright.


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:06 pm 
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points wrote:
If a store owner sees my firearm and ask me to leave, I declare that I am a Federal LEO.

Another option at your disposal is to simply take your business elsewhere. While your law enforcement officer status protects you from prosecution, the fact remains the business doesn't want you there so why give them your money?


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 Post subject: Re: LEO Carry in MN
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:00 pm 
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When I was a State Corrections Officer, this was even more confusing. State COs were defined as law enforcement by other states and by LEOSA, but not Minnesota itself!

One of my fellow COs actually created a wallet card, which had the text of LEOSA and applicable Minnesota Statutes related to COs. Just to be safe, he (and I, and most other COs I knew) also had MN permits.

It pays to know the nuances of the law, but you should also not go where you aren't wanted.


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