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 ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow 
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 Post subject: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Posted: Thursday, 02 July 2009 9:50PM
ACLU files suit over gun rights

Jay Vise Reporting
A New Orleans man is suing the city and its district attorney for refusing to give back a gun that police seized when he was arrested on drug and firearms charges.

The American Civil Liberties Union on Thursday filed the federal suit on behalf of Errol Houston Jr., who was arrested last year following a traffic stop.

The suit says the district attorney's office declined to prosecute Houston but has refused to return his .40 caliber firearm.

Houston claims Orleans Parish District Attorney Leon Cannizzaro has instituted a policy that firearms seized during arrests will not be returned to their owners.

The ACLU says that policy violates Houston's constitutional rights.

Cannizzaro says his office decides on a "case by case basis'' whether to return confiscated guns.

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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:53 am 
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DeanC wrote:
Quote:
Posted: Thursday, 02 July 2009 9:50PM
ACLU files suit over gun rights

\o return his .40 caliber firearm.

Houston claims Orleans Parish District Attorney Leon Cannizzaro has instituted a policy that firearms seized during arrests will not be returned to their owners.

The ACLU says that policy violates Houston's constitutional rights.

Cannizzaro says his office decides on a "case by case basis'' whether to return confiscated guns.


Has instituted a policy!!! His office decides!!! Do these people think they are the BATFE or what? They think they can just go around making policies on whether or not to return property they no longer have a legal right to keep!! If he was not even charged/prosecuted what right do they have to keep his property?

Ice skating in hell...who'd have thought? :)

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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:31 pm 
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I think this is probably a case where the cities BS policy is so recockulous that even the ACLU couldn't see any reason in it.

Either that or this is one of those "blind squirrel" or "stopped clock" moments.

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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:54 pm 
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Wow when the ACLU thinks a government agency went over the line about guns then Hell has frozen over. :D

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Last edited by Srigs on Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Three things to consider:

(1) The ACLU is not one organization but rather a loose federation of 53 affiliates and a national umbrella organization. Each of these is made up of two corporations for tax reasons leading to a total of 108 separate entities each with its own board and staff. As one might imagine this takes herding cats to a whole new level. The organization does not speak with one voice and priorities vary from one affiliate to the next.

(2) Cases involving the rights of the accused are the ACLU's kind of cases. Abuse of search, seizure, and forfeiture laws has been a legal priority for the ACLU for years.

(3) Louisiana law enforcement exists to make the gang strike force and The Notorious M.C. look like they run a tight ship.


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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:27 pm 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
Three things to consider:

(1) The ACLU is not one organization but rather a loose federation of 53 affiliates and a national umbrella organization. Each of these is made up of two corporations for tax reasons leading to a total of 108 separate entities each with its own board and staff. As one might imagine this takes herding cats to a whole new level. The organization does not speak with one voice and priorities vary from one affiliate to the next.

(2) Cases involving the rights of the accused are the ACLU's kind of cases. Abuse of search, seizure, and forfeiture laws has been a legal priority for the ACLU for years.

(3) Louisiana law enforcement exists to make the gang strike force and The Notorious M.C. look like they run a tight ship.


Who invited the voice of reason to this conversation???

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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:51 pm 
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kecker wrote:
MostlyHarmless wrote:
Three things to consider:

(1) The ACLU is not one organization but rather a loose federation of 53 affiliates and a national umbrella organization. Each of these is made up of two corporations for tax reasons leading to a total of 108 separate entities each with its own board and staff. As one might imagine this takes herding cats to a whole new level. The organization does not speak with one voice and priorities vary from one affiliate to the next.

(2) Cases involving the rights of the accused are the ACLU's kind of cases. Abuse of search, seizure, and forfeiture laws has been a legal priority for the ACLU for years.

(3) Louisiana law enforcement exists to make the gang strike force and The Notorious M.C. look like they run a tight ship.


Who invited the voice of reason to this conversation???


I'll add even more reason...

So how do we take over our local affiliate? 8)

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:07 pm 
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I'm a little fuzzy on the internal organization of the local affiliates but I think they are largely run by attorneys willing to perform at least some work on a pro bono basis. In that sense it's more of a brand than an organization. Very different from the NRA.

So, how do we take over? I would suggest that we start by handing out fliers at law school career fairs so that bright, impressionable, young attorneys who want to change the world understand that there's important work to be done. Then give it a generation or two.

Incidentally, this is where I really get sideways with Wayne La Pierre's approach. He's willing to offend the intellectuals in the ideological center in order to keep his base wound up. Demographics don't favor that kind of methodology over the long run and the NRA is going to go the way of the BPOE if he keeps this up and fails to reach out to (or at least stop offending through hyperbole) younger, freedom loving people who haven't grown up in the gun culture.


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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:19 am 
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Personally I think the best way to defend gun rights is to emphasize the fact that you are not merely speaking about guns, but all of the freedoms that were protected under the Bill of Rights, which is what liberalism is all about. Sadly, "liberals" today are basically statists when it comes to any issue that is not normally celebrated by the DFL. I could say the same thing about the GOP as well.

When you frame the debate in this context by saying things like how the right to self-defense is as important as the right to speech, and how gun laws would not pass both Constitutional and common sense muster if you applied the same approaches to the 1st Amendment, you tend to win over people because when it comes to guns, a lot of people who are supportive of individual rights don't seem to think about guns in the same way. If you get rid of that stumbling block you have another supporter of individual freedom in all aspects. In fact, most of my friends who I've converted so to speak to supporting gun rights don't own guns or have never shot a gun before themselves (although I am working on that part as it will not only bolster their conviction on the matter, but it's a lot of fun too!) but they see the importance in protecting all of our individual rights, even if they don't shoot themselves or even necessarily "like" guns. We are the youth (am I old at 25? :) ) who are just getting out of college and are in position to replace others in positions of authority, and we have not grown up in the gun culture. If anything my upbringing was more negative than positive in terms of gun culture- guns weren't a factor growing up but I saw them as only negative through the media although I had a fascination with them from a historical and mechanical context. In a few short years I went from a gun control advocate to a die-hard gun rights advocate by keeping an open mind on an issue that I previously thought I knew everything about.

I can appreciate the NRA's influence on lawmakers (I am an NRA member because they do help and are the best weapon we have at the moment) but they have a negative image for many people- they are dismissed as a lunatic group. If you explain it more in the ACLU mindset of freedom for all, especially unpopular freedoms like gun rights, flag burning, gay rights, etc, you will win people over because chances are they'll believe strongly in some kind of individual rights and they are therefore seen as less extremist. This is where the ACLU loses me, personally, because they for the most part do not support gun rights- they even said on their website that they feel the 2A is NOT an individual right! If that is not the very definition of being a hypocrite, I do not know what is.

If the NRA could shift its image in more of that vein (and I am aware that the NRA is a single-issue group) they would be more popular. For example, why bother talking about non-2A related political topics during NRA meetings such as health care, etc? Yes, the members there are probably 90% GOP so you are preaching to the choir, but there are others out there like me and my friends who don't fit that demographic but are freedom lovers of all sorts who don't fit into the DFL or the GOP's doors, and due to this fact we tend to have a bit more credibility because we are not seen as being as biased as the typical gun owner would be. Have you noticed that young people have increasingly labeled themselves as independents? I say instead of merely energizing a small but devoted core base of supporters and ignoring everyone else, it makes sense to reach out to people who don't fit the mold of a normal gun owner. Through our diversity, we can become stronger and harder to be ignored based on ideological differences.


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 Post subject: Re: ACLU files gun rights suit; Hell to freeze over tomorrow
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:55 pm 
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Two thumbs up for the ACLU !! WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOO


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