|
|
It is currently Tue May 14, 2024 6:09 am
|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
|
Page 1 of 1
|
[ 15 posts ] |
|
The value of eye protection
Author |
Message |
cobb
|
Post subject: The value of eye protection Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:07 pm |
|
1911 tainted |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
|
Maybe I am just lazy tonight, but my story is easiest told if I just cut and paste an e-mail that I sent out discussing a minor thing that happened to me at a local club's IDPA match. Actually this happened after most of the shooters had left, and there were 5 of us that wanted to run the course of fire again, and again, and one more time because it wasn't dark yet.
Quote: Guys, After checking things out, I firmly believe that what happened to me was a case head separation and nothing else. I know that some people seem to be in self denial, and maybe I could be, but this was not a double charge of Clays, no way. In my opinion it would be very hard to not notice 8.4 grains of Clays (if it would fit with a bullet seated) in a case that I normally load 4.2 grs. I would also think that I would have alot more damage to the Baer, remember, I dropped the mag using the mag release and it fell free (not like the one that didn't earlier in a course of fire). The Baer is unharmed in any way, measured every thing and every where that I could think, the wood grip panels have zero damage, I just had to scrape some melted lead off of the feed ramp area of the frame. The magazine dropped fine when I released it, yes the follower was broken, the separated case allowed the gasses to force a lot of pressure downward that broke the plastic Wilson follower into several pieces, but the metal of the magazine was not damaged. I did measurements on the Wilson mag in several places, not any different than any of my 8 other Wilson mags. So I cleaned the melted lead off of the mag (#6), put a new follower in it, using the "SAME" spring, and everything appears normal. Don't worry, I am doing this for testing purposes only, it is time to change all of my magazine springs and followers anyway. Lesson learned from tonight. #1 - Don't use shit brass! But how does a person know unless we use nothing but new or guaranteed once fired brass, and then not from a Glock. I guess I didn't learn from tonight because I will still use .45 acp brass that I have, just have to inspect it closer. Remember, all the rounds that I shoot are visually inspected and chamber checked with a gauge from either Midway or Dillon, maybe that's not good enough. I am very careful on the brass that I use for .44 mag., .454 Casull, .475 Limbaugh, and the such, I load them towards the high end, so if I do not know the brass, I trash it. With the .45 acp which I load to just make power factor + for IDPA, not even loaded close to the factory pressure limits, in the past I really never concerned myself with the brass. Mistake??? #2 After looking in the mirror tonight and seeing the wounds and peppered marks around my right eye, basically following the curvature of my prescription glasses, I walked into my sons room and said that if I ever catch you shooting without eye protection, I will kick your ass, then I showed him the details of my face. The good side of the story, which we all noticed, the popper that I was shooting at when this all happened did fall. Comments??????????
What ever happened, which I believe was nothing more than a round that I loaded with a very weak head area, or even maybe cracked and I missed it, but it did get my attention when it failed. I have some powder marks on my hand wherever there is an opening in the 1911 frame or slide, the cut out in the slide to remove the slide stop is one spot, my thumb which covers the hole in the frame for the slide stop is another that has powder markings.
Bottom line is that shit happens, but I know for a fact that if I was not wearing eye protection, tonight the condition of my right eye may be questionable, and yes it is sensitive from what I believe was caused by escaping gasses, thank God not brass and powder residue, which left a purdy and bloody marking on my face following the edge of the frame of my glasses.
Peter told me tonight at the match that he has started to read this forum, so I thought that I should thank him for the use of his handkerchief and we are soaking it in cold water to get the blood out, I will get it back to you at the next match.
Bottom line and maybe a no shit USE EYE AND EAR PROTECTION AT ALL TIMES"
Yes, I hope I am preaching to the choir.
And how was your day?
|
|
|
|
|
Andrew Rothman
|
Post subject: Re: The value of eye protection Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:23 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
|
|
|
|
|
Brewman
|
Post subject: Re: The value of eye protection Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:30 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:39 pm Posts: 1132 Location: Prior Lake, MN
|
cobb wrote: Yes, I hope I am preaching to the choir.
You are for me. I've hand an ejected casing thwack my saftey glasses once or twice.
_________________ Brewman
|
|
|
|
|
matt160
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:04 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:18 am Posts: 1086 Location: Anoka, MN
|
Hot brass anywhere can become an issue.
_________________ "Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding."
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
|
|
|
|
|
ttousi
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:45 am |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am Posts: 3311 Location: St. Paul, MN.
|
Good example for all of us. Serious issue.........notice no attempt @ humor (even though it is Rick). Yup, we only have one set of eyes and anyone who has worn eye glasses with a heavy presription realizes how tough it would be to lose total vision. Sometimes it is hard to get the point across to anyone who has never had any issues with vision. (I have a couple of brothers who I constantly yap at regarding the eye protection.)
Glad everything came out as it did
_________________ http://is.gd/37LKr
|
|
|
|
|
Selurcspi
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:50 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
|
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
Sorry wrong story.
This used to be known as “Race Face”, for those competitors who shot 1911s that were setup by some of the earlier dubious names in gunsmithing, most of which have not survived in business, thankfully.
Shooting short nosed 180gr semi-wadcutters was a real problem, the common fix was to “Throat” the chamber. This practice still goes on today but thankfully to a smaller number of guns. I’ve only seen a few IPSC guns setup with a severely throated barrel in the last ten years.
A possible source of your problem could be that you picked up a case that came from a throated barrel, resized it and never noticed the offending item. A badly bulged case once resized can last for a fair number of reloadings, but as brass is shot and reloaded, it “Work Hardens” (the metals structure crystallizes) and eventually cracks, helped along by one or more previous unsupported bulges. This crack problem, is possibly the source of catastrophic case head failure.
When we IPSC shooters were busy trying to make major with 38 stupid, some of us experienced similar exciting gaseous problems. I personally solved this problem by marking my cases and only reloading MY cases.
A more judicious approach to solving 1911 feed malfunctions has also been a significant factor in stopping this problem.
I hope this helps with your PM analysis.
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
|
|
|
|
|
cobb
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:13 am |
|
1911 tainted |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
|
Selurcspi wrote: This used to be known as “Race Face”, for those competitors who shot 1911s that were setup by some of the earlier dubious names in gunsmithing, most of which have not survived in business, thankfully. Shooting short nosed 180gr semi-wadcutters was a real problem, the common fix was to “Throat” the chamber. This practice still goes on today but thankfully to a smaller number of guns. I’ve only seen a few IPSC guns setup with a severely throated barrel in the last ten years. A possible source of your problem could be that you picked up a case that came from a throated barrel, resized it and never noticed the offending item. A badly bulged case once resized can last for a fair number of reloadings, but as brass is shot and reloaded, it “Work Hardens” (the metals structure crystallizes) and eventually cracks, helped along by one or more previous unsupported bulges. This crack problem, is possibly the source of catastrophic case head failure.
When we IPSC shooters were busy trying to make major with 38 stupid, some of us experienced similar exciting gaseous problems. I personally solved this problem by marking my cases and only reloading MY cases. A more judicious approach to solving 1911 feed malfunctions has also been a significant factor in stopping this problem.
This reminds me, wasn't there also a term called "38 super face" or "super face" because of brass letting loose and gasing the face of the shooter? I have never heard the term "Race Face", but can understand where it came from.
|
|
|
|
|
Selurcspi
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:48 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
|
It's possible different terms grew in different areas, but "super face" is also one I'm personally familiar with, along with "super hand". Which is typically caused by your grips getting splintered into your hand, by the same problem. I had stainless steel grips for a while to obviate that problem.
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
|
|
|
|
|
cobb
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:28 am |
|
1911 tainted |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
|
Just an update. I had two dark spots on my right cheek, they looked like just maybe scab or dried blood, but not disappearing like the rest of the damage. One appeared to be nothing, at least I didn't find anything, but the other appears to be a piece of lead. When the case separated in the head area, the escaping gasses melted some of the bullet in the magazine below it. I have to assume that what I took out and that is now laying on my desk is a piece of that lead.
I have always worn safety glasses and just warned people that I see shoot, what chances they are taking. Now I will be a lot more forceful in my suggestion as to wearing eye protection. I my classes, it has always been mandatory.
This is actually the second time a pistol has drawn blood from my face. The first was an older, well used Rossi revolver in .38 Special. When firing it, a sliver of the jacket from the bullet pealed off and did a 180. It stuck in my left cheek and required a tweezers to pull it out.
Again, anybody that doesn't wear the standard protection items when shooting are just plain idiots.
|
|
|
|
|
grayskys
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:17 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm Posts: 1725
|
I just use my glasses, they work fine
I have some worries about how much protection the cheap eye protection that is used at ranges gives you.
|
|
|
|
|
Rem700
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:11 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:46 am Posts: 257 Location: Blaine, Mn
|
Glasses with side protection either side shields or wrap arounds. Had a friend actually have lead enter from the rear of his glasses bounce of the inside of the lense and inbed in his eye, He came real close to loseing vision in his eye. Can never be to careful when it comes to gun safety. For those that reload ammo remember your safety glasses when reloading.
|
|
|
|
|
Rem700
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:16 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:46 am Posts: 257 Location: Blaine, Mn
|
grayskys wrote: I just use my glasses, they work fine I have some worries about how much protection the cheap eye protection that is used at ranges gives you.
Even the the cheap $5-10 plastic shooting glasses have to meet OSHA and ANSI standards are much better then regular prescription glass lenses. Where a pair of the plastic over the glasses ones for double the protection.
|
|
|
|
|
Old Dude
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:44 pm Posts: 842 Location: Phillips Neighborhood Minneapolis
|
I wear goggles over my prescription glasses. However, I have bought one of those headband/face shield things. I've only shot with it once, and it was with my AK47, and I had to flip up the shield to get the stock near my cheek.
Does anybody have any experience with those face shields? Opinions?
_________________ http://web.me.com/bdwilliams44/Site/Blank.html
|
|
|
|
|
cobb
|
Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:49 pm |
|
1911 tainted |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
|
Rem700 wrote: For those that reload ammo remember your safety glasses when reloading.
Yes, for sure. I have a pair of clear safety glasses that wrap around and actually ride on my cheeks when I load, hopefully to protect from a bad thing happening below. I have heard of primers detonating in the tube before, not a neat experience from what I hear.
|
|
|
|
|
BigRobT
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:23 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:25 am Posts: 1772 Location: North Central Texas (now)
|
You can try to prevent eye injuries all you want, but they will happen. Three times I've injured my eye. The first time, I was walking between two hangars where safety glasses weren't required. It was quite windy and somewhere a metal shaving was picked up and it blew into my eye. I even had sunglasses on. (Aviator style RayBans). The next time, I was doing some wiring on my car and the wire whipped around and struck my eye. The last time was another piece of metal shaving that apparently had gotten on my hands (without me realizing it). I wiped my eyes for some reason and embedded the shaving in my eye. To be quite honest, I haven't had any problems with shooting until people were shooting pepper pot targets. I THOUGHT I was safely away, but I was still getting splattered with bullet fragments. (NO eye injury there, though). Unless one wear full protective goggles, there's always some risk.
_________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have. - Barry Goldwater
"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] -- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD),
The Nanny State MUST DIE!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Page 1 of 1
|
[ 15 posts ] |
|
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|
|
|