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Laws re: gun use and animals
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13654		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Prhyme [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Laws re: gun use and animals
I'm wondering what the Minnesota laws are regarding shooting/killing animals outside of hunting. Do you still need to fear BGH and are the consequences the same? Here are a couple examples:

1. Easy one - My buddy hit a deer a month ago with his car. Am I allowed to put it out of its misery? The State Police didn't seem to interested in coming out and taking care of it.

2. Harder one - Last week, my wife and I brought the kids to the Delano city playground. All told, there were probably forty kids and adults total, which is busier than I've seen it before. After about 15 minutes, two rough looking gentlemen show up at the park with a Doberman and large Boxer off leash. They may have brought a kid with them too, but I didn't see one. Parents immediately started scooping up their kids and leaving. After a couple minutes two-thirds of the kids were gone. I had my kids go to the other end of the park and I just hung out until the two guys left. Now I'm sure they were the nicest dogs in the world, but if one went after a kid and I had to shoot it should I expect the massive legal consequences of shooting a person? Please realize that I'm not talking about wildly firing a gun while chasing some dog around the park. . . I'm talking a clean shot from close range after I had separated the dog from the kid or point blank if I couldn't get them apart.
Author:  EJSG19 [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
I don't mean to be short with my response, but please take a look at this old thread from late last year. I think it applies pretty directly to your questions. If you have more questions after getting the general feeling of this thread, then by all means please keep asking questions.

http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10653

As for road-kill, generally you are best off by calling the DNR. They'll tell you how to proceed, or to wait for an officer to take care of it. I've heard it go both ways, sometimes they'll turn it over to you, sometimes an officer has to come to the scene (and even then they might turn it over to you if you want it).

For dogs, if they are a threat, I believe the rule is that they can be shot (I'm not a lawyer). This applies for people, and also if a dog is witnesses harassaing protected game species like moose. That does not mean, however, that you won't have a lawsuit from the dog's owner or something of that nature. Nor does it mean you won't have any trouble on your hands.

You'll find more detail on the above in that thread, and the DNR's website.
Author:  Prhyme [ Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
Perfect. Thanks for the info!
Author:  340PD [ Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
This is just my personal opinion and INAL and all of that. I actually think your 2nd question/situation is easier. I am not a parent but if I were in that situation and a dog charged at my young child and I was afraid the dog would do harm to my child it would be an automatic response to shoot the dog no questions asked. I would be of the mindset that I would deal with the implications of that after the fact. I would rather shoot the dog and face legal/financial ramifications rather than have my child injured or killed. I would have to think (again just my opinion) that the average person would agree with you protecting yourself or especially, your child from an animal. As stated, I'm sure the previous threads on this will give the formal answer law wise.
Author:  kecker [ Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
340PD wrote:
This is just my personal opinion and INAL and all of that. I actually think your 2nd question/situation is easier. I am not a parent but if I were in that situation and a dog charged at my young child and I was afraid the dog would do harm to my child it would be an automatic response to shoot the dog no questions asked. I would be of the mindset that I would deal with the implications of that after the fact. I would rather shoot the dog and face legal/financial ramifications rather than have my child injured or killed. I would have to think (again just my opinion) that the average person would agree with you protecting yourself or especially, your child from an animal. As stated, I'm sure the previous threads on this will give the formal answer law wise.


I understand the sentiment and I doubt many would disagree, but I think he's asking more about those "implications after the fact" you alluded to. Legalwise what's he signing up for.
Author:  Lowrangerider [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
Keep in mind if you made the wrong choice and the dog's owner has a gun too you might be in for a ugly fight... You better be sure it is aggression you are seeing and not a happy dog running up to say hi. I have a pitbull that is SUPER friendly ( I keep him on leash) but many people are just afraid of bully breed dogs.

To be honest I would 'let' the dog bite me before pulling a gun. Fight the dog off till you can get to your gun THEN shoot it. that way you know for sure it is aggression and not just your fear of some dogs. Small price to pay to not get sued or arrested...
Author:  kecker [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
Lowrangerider wrote:
Keep in mind if you made the wrong choice and the dog's owner has a gun too you might be in for a ugly fight... You better be sure it is aggression you are seeing and not a happy dog running up to say hi. I have a pitbull that is SUPER friendly ( I keep him on leash) but many people are just afraid of bully breed dogs.

To be honest I would 'let' the dog bite me before pulling a gun. Fight the dog off till you can get to your gun THEN shoot it. that way you know for sure it is aggression and not just your fear of some dogs. Small price to pay to not get sued or arrested...


On the other hand, a simple bite can turn into a rather large price. My friend's wife almost lost her arm due to a simple dog bite.

Moreover why should I let harm come to me before I act in self-defense. Kinda ruins the point yeah? There is a reason why the use of deadly force provisions are written stating you need to have a reasonable belief that you are in danger of ........., instead of saying wait until the attacker has beaten, shot or raped you first....THEN you can fire.

And let's be practical. Once that dog has latched onto you, what's the liklihood you're going to be able to retrieve your firearm and make any sort of safe shot? I'm betting zero.
Author:  Lowrangerider [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
Its going to be different for each person. If you are small and frail then you will react differently then someone who knows how to deal with dogs and has the size and speed to react without going to the gun first.
Even myself who is very comfy with large dogs of all kinds; If I'm walking down the ally and a dog comes out and is growling and visibly agressive and ready to attack I will kill it if it comes at me. No doubt. What he said was the owners were near and if they ran up to you. Not if it is snarling and foaming at the mouth... Im just saying you better be sure.
Author:  gunflint [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
Sorry, but if your pit bull comes running at me (off leash) I have to assume it's aggression. We can discuss how playful he was posthumously. Waiting to see if it's going to bite is like waiting to see if a bad guy with a gun is going to shoot before acting.
Author:  JimC [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
If you see dogs off leash in a park, call 911

If you hit a deer and want to kill it & keep it, DNR No problem since the deer population explosion.
Author:  Dee [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
gunflint wrote:
Sorry, but if your pit bull comes running at me (off leash) I have to assume it's aggression. We can discuss how playful he was posthumously. Waiting to see if it's going to bite is like waiting to see if a bad guy with a gun is going to shoot before acting.


Ditto.
Especially if I had a child with me.
I'm not going to take the chance and let it bite me or the kid.
Don't get me wrong, I have dogs that are, for all practical purposes, members of the family. However, when I go out with them, they are always on a leash and controlled.
Author:  EJSG19 [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
JimC wrote:

If you hit a deer and want to kill it & keep it, DNR No problem since the deer population explosion.


Best be checking with the DNR first before you take possession of that deer. Having a deer without a tag, and no authorization could get you labelled as a poacher pretty easy, depending on the situation.

Just so everyone else is clear.
Author:  Lowrangerider [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
gunflint wrote:
Sorry, but if your pit bull comes running at me (off leash) I have to assume it's aggression. We can discuss how playful he was posthumously. Waiting to see if it's going to bite is like waiting to see if a bad guy with a gun is going to shoot before acting.


How about a golden retriever?
Author:  boomingmetropolis [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
Have a rather large dog that I walk at least a couple times per. Of course, there's always other hounds out there, some of which are spoiling for a tussle. Out one morning and a ratty looking springer spaniel comes running off a porch and comes for my mutt. The owner stands there, watching this like it's light entertainment.

I yelled that if the springer bit either me or mine it would be his LAST meal. The owner turned and walked back in the house.

That springer is no longer with us.
Author:  gunflint [ Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laws re: gun use and animals
Don't get me wrong I love dogs, particularly big dogs. I've had German Shepards for the last 20 years. Pitt bulls have been bred for fighting and killing and very few owners have the time, patience, and experience required to train them properly.
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