Anyone pick up one of these yet? Any opinions on either one?

The Colt M4 in .22
http://www.colt22rimfire.com


OR


The S&W M&P15-22

I've thought about it, and spotted at least the Colt at Gander Mountain, but they wanted $650 - for that I can get an upper, and just swap it out on my for-me built lower. (Not that I have an upper yet to remove...)

They're too spendy, IMHO.

I shot the S&W at Bill's and played with the Colt at Frontiersman.

I like the S&W better and it shot very well. I've seen it as low as $425.

Dean,
I read a bunch of reviews and everyone seems to think that the S&W is the better rifle.
I went to Gander's today, during lunch, and handled the Colt. It doesn't seem too bad but Gander wants $699 for it.
Where did you see the S&W for $425?

The Smith looks nice but, really, if you have a 'real' 5.56 version of an AR why bother with the .22 version? Get a Ruger 10/22 and you'll have just as much fun, enjoy larger clips, etc., all with much cheaper initial buy-in. And there are probably as many avenues to customize a 10/22 as there are AR rifles. My 10/22 has served me well for near 30 years now.

BB

Because to get all the features on a 10/22 that are already installed on the S&W, you'll end up spending more and still have a rifle that is not functional as a trainer for the current military issue rifle.

The conversion kits are nowhere near as accurate as this thing it because they are set up for heavier weight jacketed bullets. Yes, you can get a dedicated upper with the proper twist rate bbl, but it's going to be hard to do it much cheaper than this thing sells for and you end up with one less rifle.

The S&W will take almost all existing AR accessories including grips and triggers.

There is a really nice write up in the October 2009 issue of Shooting Times.

Cabela's had them on sale recently.

I really have no desire to own a "real" AR. I have no use for a rifle chambered in 5.56. It's too big for squirrel and too small for deer (flame suit on). I have a more than adequate deer rifle and I prefer a .22 for small game. Like you, Big Blue, I also have a 10/22 that has performed flawlessly for 25 years and I still shoot it quite a bit.

However, I like the looks of the AR and would love one in .22. I'm not really interested in it as a trainer for the larger caliber. I have considered building one from AR parts but can't justify the expense. I'm just surprised that it took so long for the manufacturers to wise up. If I can find a decent AR replica in .22, I would be satisfied. I'm not willing to pay Gander's prices but if I could find one for about what Dean mentioned, I might buy it. Punching paper with an AR would be fun but with ammo prices climbing, it wouldn't be cheap. Whereas, one chambered in .22 would be a lot of fun and cheap to shoot. From the reviews that I have been reading, both those rifles are accurate enough for small game hunting which would be an added plus.

I was very impressed with the off-hand accuracy.

This rifle is near perfect for an Appleseed Clinic. Just needs a sling and some extra 10rd mags.

Dean,
I checked out the links that you posted the last time you mentioned the Appleseed clinic and its definitely something that I want to try. Most likely wont happen this fall though. I'll probably PM you in the spring about it.

Dean,

What are 'all the features' that you would add to a stock 10/22? Sure, if you want to add tactical features like a collapsible stock, picatinny rails, hand grip, etc. then I understand. But if you just want a decently accurate .22 rifle for target and plinking and don't care about the look/design then I'm not sure what else you'd change on a 10/22? I do agree that the 10/22 is not a training sub for an AR-based .22, but I guess I wasn't considering that being a big draw for most folks.

Just curious...

BB

Sling
Sling Swivels (the front one is really a pain in the ass on a 10/22 if you want a strong attachment point)
Sights - usually these
Extended magazine release
Automatic bolt release (so you don't have to use 2 hands)
Upgraded trigger
Adjustable stock
Then you have to remove the paint from the inside of the receiver (who in the hell paints the inside of a receiver?) and maybe bed the barrel

For these reasons I have favored the Marlin 795 which already has most of those features and costs a lot less, but is a little lightly weighted. The Marlin 7000 was really nice, but is out of production. The S&W M&P15-22 is my new favorite.

If you want an dedicated rimfire AR trainer avoid the Colt offering. I've read its safety is backwards versus a standard AR. What were they thinking?

Some friends and I just completed an Appleseed and one of us shot an AR with a conversion kit. Worked great both days and was plenty accurate enough. CMMG is selling these kits now, though you can get 27 round mags cheaper from many other sources.

I haven't seen proof the bolt hold open or bolt release work the same on these trainers as on the full sized, 5.56 chambered, ARs. If true (they don't work) then you don't loose very much running a conversion kit.

Not true.

The safety on the Colt 22 LR AR is in the same location as a standard AR but it requires 180 degrees of clockwise rotation from "safe" to "fire" versus the normal 90 degrees of clockwise rotation from "safe" to "fire" on a normal semi-auto only AR or the SW M&P 15-22

The different safety operation and higher cost are the features I do not like about the Colt 22LR AR versus the SW M&P 15-22. The features I like about the Colt are: the receiver is die cast versus plastic (although I think plastic is functionally fine, it just makes the SW really light), the barrel and forearm are much better on the Colt (I do not like the cheap looking barrel on the SW and I am not a fan of all the rails on the SW forearm), the Colt has a forward assist (functional or not, it just looks right).

Just my thoughts. I'll probably get the SW M&P 15-22 because of the lower cost and the difference in the operation of the Colt safety.