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 St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun" 
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 Post subject: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:13 pm 
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Well, the Sheeple are certainly stirred up today. It seems theres been a report of a "Man With A Gun" at the St. Paul College campus.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/displa ... n/?refid=0

Which one of you yahoos decided to try open carry today? ;)

It would sure be nice if the person that reported this (and reported ON this story) would describe how the gun was being carried; in a backpack.. in a IWB holster.. or tucked in his belt like a wannabe..


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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:04 pm 
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http://www.startribune.com/local/60708642.html

Report of man with gun prompts sweep of St. Paul College

By PAUL WALSH, Star Tribune

Last update: September 23, 2009 - 1:23 PM



The main building at St. Paul College is undergoing an extensive security sweep after a student reported possibly seeing a man on campus with a gun, police and school officials said.

For the past two hours, a lockdown was first put in place -- meaning no one could enter or leave the building -- and that was followed by an evacuation out the school's main entrance on Marshall Avenue, said school spokesman Jim Stumne.

"Students are walking out right in front of me," Stumne said. "St. Paul police have it well under control."

Authorities have yet to find anything suspicious, said police spokesman Sgt. Paul Schnell.

Classes for the afternoon have been canceled, said school development director Susan Omoto. The fate of evening classes has yet to be determined, Omoto said.

Shortly after 11 this morning, a female student reported to school officials that she saw a man with what "she believed to be a gun," Schnell said. School officials then relayed the information to police.

St. Paul College does not have posted the commonly seen signs that declare guns "banned on these premises." However, Stumne said, "It's against the law to bring weapons onto a state campus like this."

The 7,000-student school is on Marshall Avenue in the heart of the city's Cathedral Hill section. It is the oldest of the metro area's public two-year colleges.

Paul Walsh • 612-673-4482

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:04 pm 
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I like how "spokesman" Stumne likes to make up sh!t as he goes...

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"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960

"Man has the right to deal with his oppressors by devouring their palpitating hearts." - Jean-Paul Marat


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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:05 pm 
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chunkstyle wrote:
I like how "spokesman" Stumne likes to make up sh!t as he goes...
I've just emailed his boss, asking him to educate his subordinate.

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:23 pm 
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plblark wrote:
Mr. Walsh,

This e-mail is in reference to your story "Report of man with gun prompts sweep of St. Paul College" found online at http://www.startribune.com/local/60708642.html?

While all responsible firearms instructors and owners certainly hope this turns out to be nothing, I feel compelled to correct an assertion school spokesman Jim Stumne made.

From your story:
St. Paul College does not have posted the commonly seen signs that declare guns "banned on these premises." However, Stumne said, "It's against the law to bring weapons onto a state campus like this."

Stumne is incorrect in citing the state law. St. Paul College, as a public college and member of MNSCU may have an administrative policy banning firearms for students and employees. While they may impose academic and administrative sanctions. Since St. Paul College is not a K-12 Educational facility, it is NOT illegal to posess a firearm on their campus with a permit to carry.


The relevant section of MN Statute:
(http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/data ... 4/714.html):

" Subd. 18. Employers; public colleges and universities.

(a) An employer, whether public or private, may establish policies that restrict the carry or possession of firearms by its employees while acting in the course and scope of employment. Employment related civil sanctions may be invoked for a violation.

(b) A public post secondary institution regulated under chapter 136F or 137 may establish policies that restrict the carry or possession of firearms by its students while on the institution's property. Academic sanctions may be invoked for a violation.

(c) Notwithstanding paragraphs (a) and (b), an employer or a postsecondary institution may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area. "
[...]
"Subd. 23. Exclusivity. This section sets forth the complete and exclusive criteria and procedures for the issuance of permits to carry and establishes their nature and scope. No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry. "

This means that while St. Paul College may invoke academic or employment sanctions on an employee or student, the sanctions have no effect on a law abiding permit holder not employed by nor attending the institution. Even for an employee or student, a MNSCU / St. Paul College administrative policy may have been broken but not the law.

Stumne would be more correct in asserting the following:
It is against St. Paul College policy for a student or employee to have a firearm on campus, even with a valid permit to carry.

Paul Bxxxxxx
Certified firearms instructor
NRA certified basic pistol and personal protection in the home
MADFI certified carry permit instructor (http://www.madfi.org)
MN Tactics certified carry permit instructor (http://www.mntactics.com)

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:24 pm 
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plblark wrote:
to: jim.stumne@saintpaul.edu; craig.anderson@saintpaul.edu
Gentlemen,

I expect that facts and accuracy are very important to you as representatives of a public educational institution furthering the quest for knowledge and truth. After all “It's not what we don't know that hurts us, it's what we do know that isn't so.” - Will Rogers

I invite your attention to the following inaccuracy.

Paul B******

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:25 pm 
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Well, looky here... The Strib reporter fixed the quote, after I called him.

Quote:
The state's "conceal and carry" statute bans weapons possession without a permit on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property.

St. Paul College, as part of the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities (MnSCU) system, does have a policy against students and employees possessing a firearm on school property, but it cannot prevent properly permitted visitors from being armed.

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"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960

"Man has the right to deal with his oppressors by devouring their palpitating hearts." - Jean-Paul Marat


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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:27 pm 
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The article has changed but is still imperfect.

Quote:
Report of man with gun prompts sweep of St. Paul college

By PAUL WALSH, Star Tribune

Last update: September 23, 2009 - 3:06 PM

The main building at St. Paul College is undergoing an extensive security sweep after a student reported seeing a man in an elevator with a gun in his hand, police officials said.

Starting about 11 a.m., a lockdown was first put in place -- meaning no one could enter or leave the building -- and that was followed about two hours later by an evacuation out the main entrance of the two-year college on Marshall Avenue, said school spokesman Jim Stumne.

"Students are walking out right in front of me," Stumne said early this afternoon. "St. Paul police have it well under control."

Authorities have yet to find anything suspicious, said police spokesman Sgt. Paul Schnell, adding that the sweep should be complete around 3 p.m.

Classes for the afternoon have been canceled, school officials said. Barring a troubling discovery, the building is expected to be reopened by about 4 p.m., allowing evening classes to be held as scheduled, Stumne said.

Shortly after 11 this morning, a female student reported to school officials that she saw "this gun was out and at some point it was in the man's hand," Schnell said. "At one point, he reached out and grabbed a gun from a ledge or something in an elevator, and that's what caught her attention."

School officials then relayed the information to police.

The state's "conceal and carry" statute bans weapons possession without a permit on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property.

St. Paul College, as part of the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities (MnSCU) system, does have a policy against students and employees possessing a firearm on school property, but it cannot prevent properly permitted visitors from being armed.

The student who made the report "is not just a person who saw someone with a holstered weapon," Schnell said, explaining the thinking behind the extensive security response. "I don't think it was the legislative intent to allow people to wave a gun around."

The 7,000-student school is on Marshall Avenue in the heart of the city's Cathedral Hill section. It is the oldest of the metro area's public two-year colleges.

Paul Walsh • 612-673-4482

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:28 pm 
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chunkstyle wrote:
Well, looky here... The Strib reporter fixed the quote, after I called him.

Quote:
The state's "conceal and carry" statute bans weapons possession without a permit on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property.


That seems to say it's legal to carry on college property without a permit.

perhaps:

The state's carry permit statute bans weapons possession on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property with a permit.

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:31 pm 
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I am trying to remember the last time I saw a "ledge" in an elevator. They must have some odd elevators there.

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Anybody seen Josh Hendrickson lately?

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:48 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
Anybody seen Josh Hendrickson lately?


BWAAHAAAHHAHAAAA!!! :D

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:02 pm 
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replicant_argent wrote:
I am trying to remember the last time I saw a "ledge" in an elevator. They must have some odd elevators there.



Maybe they have sort-of ledges in their elevators, and maybe a guy who sort of reached for something that might have been a gun then went on to sort of "wave a gun around," in flagrant violation of the law's intent. Or maybe it was a ballpoint pen, he took it out of his pocket, not from a ledge, and he waved it around in the sense that he was jotting down some notes.

In any case, good thing they shut the school down, because the harder they land on guys who wave ballpoint pens around, the less likely it will be that we will have any school shootings in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:43 pm 
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That test the gal wanted to get out of must have been one hell of a doozy! :shock:

Just kidding. Or... :?:

Hmm.

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 Post subject: Re: St Paul College - report of "Man with Gun"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:50 am 
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Timothy Nelson wrote:
That test the gal wanted to get out of must have been one hell of a doozy! :shock:

Just kidding. Or... :?:

Hmm.


+1 my thoughts exactly.

I hope this does not become the modern version of pulling the fire alarm to disrupt school. I hope this is not next sessions argument for banning on campuses.

Another thought, if this was in an elevator shouldn't they have had a camera on this gun waving mad man?


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