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 Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case. 
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 Post subject: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:20 am 
Wise Elder
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Supreme Court granted cert in McDonald v. City of Chicago.

Issue: Whether the Second Amendment is incorporated into the Due Process
Clause or the Privileges or Immunities Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment
so as to be applicable to the States, thereby invalidating ordinances
prohibiting possession of handguns in the home.

Docket # 08-1521.

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:23 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:27 am 
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.


Now that SCOTUS has decided to hear McDonald vs. Chicago on Incorporation:




1.) What is the anti's argument against Incorporation?




2.) How solid is the case against Incorporation?




3.) What is the chance of us winning this?





4.) When will the decision most likely be?




5.) Is this the best case out of the of the 4 Incorporation cases available?




6.) What is the chance of SCOTUS sending this case back down to the lower courts?




7.) What is the chance of SCOTUS striking down Chicago's law, but leaving Incorporation un-answered?




8.) Is this case too big, bringing in stuff that doesn't pertain as much to the 2nd Amendment as this states?: (See below quote)

Quote:
In addition to claiming the 2nd amendment should be incorporated through the selective incorporation process, McDonald is unique among post-Heller gun cases in that it is asking the court to overturn the 1873 Slaughter-House Cases. Slaughterhouse determined that the 14th Amendment's Privileges or Immunities Clause did not apply the Bill of Rights to the actions of states (and by extension, local governments). If overturned, the Selective Incorporation process would be moot and unnecessary, as the entire Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment, would be applied against the states.

In attempting to overturn Slaughterhouse, this case has garnered the attention and support of liberal legal scholars interested in its potential application in areas outside of firearms law.[9] [10] If Slaughterhouse is overturned, it is likely that constitutional guarantees such as the right to a jury in civil cases, right to a grand jury in felony cases, and other parts of the Bill of Rights, as well as future court rulings, not universally guaranteed in actions by the states would be applied against the states automatically.







.


Last edited by usmarine0352 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:28 am 
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Just to clarify for us non-attorney types, this means the court will hear the case, yes?

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:36 am 
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Moby Clarke wrote:
Just to clarify for us non-attorney types, this means the court will hear the case, yes?




Yes.



The case should be heard next year.

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 Post subject: Court to rule on gun rights, terrorism law
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:24 am 
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Court to rule on gun rights, terrorism law
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/court-to-rule-on-gun-rights-terrorism-law/
Quote:
Taking on a major new constitutional dispute over gun rights, the Supreme Court agreed on Wednesday to decide whether to apply the Second Amendment to state, county and city government laws. In another major case among ten new grants, the Court said it will rule on the constitutionality of one of the government’s most-used legal weapons in the “war on terrorism” — a law that outlaws “material support” to terrorist groups.

The Court had three cases from which to choose on the Second Amendment issue — two cases involving a Chicago gun ban, and one case on a New York ban on a martial-arts weapon. It chose one of the Chicago cases — McDonald v. Chicago (08-1521) — a case brought to it by Alan Gura, the Alexandria, VA., lawyer who won the 2008 decision for the first time recognizing a constitutional right to have a gun for personal use, at least in self-defense in the home (District of Columbia v. Heller). A second appeal on the Chicago dispute had been filed by the National Rifle Association (NRA v. Chicago, 08-1497). Presumably, the Court will hold onto that case until it decides McDonald; the same is likely for the New York case, Maloney v. Rice (08-1592) — a case in which Justice Sonia Sotomayor had participated when she was a judge on the Second Circuit Court.

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:59 pm 
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My palms always begin to sweat when SCOTUS takes up a 2A case. What seems so cut and dried to us usually becomes more convoluted once they get their hands on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:07 pm 
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From the Chicago Tribune
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/steve_chapman/2009/09/the-end-of-the-chicago-handgun-ban.html/

It's hard to think of a compelling reason that the court would say states don't have to respect the right to keep and bear arms. Law professor Ronald Rotunda of Chapman University told me that he gives the Chicago law only a one in five chance of surviving.

The handgun ban had no effect on crime rates, and lifting it wouldn't make our violence problems any worse. But it would give law-abiding citizens a better means to protect themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:29 pm 
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rusty shackleford wrote:
From the Chicago Tribune
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/steve_chapman/2009/09/the-end-of-the-chicago-handgun-ban.html/

It's hard to think of a compelling reason that the court would say states don't have to respect the right to keep and bear arms. Law professor Ronald Rotunda of Chapman University told me that he gives the Chicago law only a one in five chance of surviving.

The handgun ban had no effect on crime rates, and lifting it wouldn't make our violence problems any worse. But it would give law-abiding citizens a better means to protect themselves.



Did you go through and read those comments? Wow, some people are off their rockers!!

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Anyone care to speculate on how, if we win the case, this might affect Minnesota?

We do okay here, but I would like to see the arbitrary state restrictions on Title II weapons lifted. I'm not sure if this would do that, but I can see how it might.


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 Post subject: Supreme Court to Hear McDonald v. Chicago -- Monumental Seco
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:17 pm 
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Supreme Court to Hear McDonald v. Chicago -- Monumental Second Amendment Case


Wednesday, September 30, 2009


Fairfax, Va. -- The National Rifle Association applauds the Supreme Court's decision, announced today, to hear the landmark Second Amendment case of McDonald v. Chicago. The case will address the application of the Second Amendment to the states through either the Due Process clause or the Privileges or Immunities clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The case has major implications for the legality of restrictive gun laws not only in Chicago, but also in other cities across the United States. The decision to hear the case, which will be argued later this year or early next year, gives Second Amendment advocates across America hope that this fundamental freedom will not be infringed by unreasonable state and local laws.

"The Second Amendment applies to every citizen, not just to those living in federal enclaves like Washington D.C. In the historic Heller decision, the Supreme Court reaffirmed what most Americans have known all along -- that the Second Amendment protects an individual right and that it applies to all Americans. The government should respect the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens throughout our country, regardless of where they live, and NRA is determined to make sure that happens," said Wayne LaPierre, NRA executive vice president.

In the June ruling that the Supreme Court will now review, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit held that the Second Amendment does not apply to state and local governments. That opinion left in place the current ban on the possession of handguns in Chicago.

However, the Seventh Circuit incorrectly claimed it was bound by precedent from 19th century Supreme Court decisions in failing to incorporate the Second Amendment. Many legal scholars believe that the Seventh Circuit should have followed the lead of the earlier Ninth Circuit panel decision in Nordyke v. Alameda County, which found that those cases don't prevent the Second Amendment from applying to the states through the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. To the contrary, a proper incorporation analysis supports application of the Second Amendment to the States.

"It is an injustice that the residents of Chicago continue to have their Second Amendment rights denied," said Chris W. Cox, NRA’s chief lobbyist. "It’s time that the fundamental right of self-defense is respected by every jurisdiction throughout the country. It is our hope that the Supreme Court will find, once and for all, that all law-abiding Americans have the God-given, constitutionally-protected right of self-defense, no matter what city, county or state they call home."


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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:26 pm 
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And the roller coaster ride begins again!

This would be a lot easier to predict if not for justice Kennedy.

Sometimes I think he makes his decision on which dinner party he wants to be invited to.

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Erik_Pakieser wrote:
Anyone care to speculate on how, if we win the case, this might affect Minnesota?

Would this effect carry rights (ie: the right to bear arms would be recognized as a right and not a paid for privilege)?

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:34 pm 
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To add to usmarine0352's list of questions above,

Do you think that Sotomayer will use this as an oppritunity to be an activist (as her past has proven) or will she show the country that she can judge fairly to prove that she was a good choice?

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 Post subject: Re: Supreme Court grants cert in the Chicago gun ban case.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Even the Brady campaign is admitting they are going to lose this case. The admit that the McDonald case is going to eliminate the fringes of the argument, outright bans are out and outright ownership is probably out. In Heller, the court said some limitations were allowed but not outright bans, so the Brady campaign is more concerned with what limitations SCOTUS will allow.

So basically we're likely to get incorporation for the Second Amendment, but we're also going to find out with the 2nd Amendment equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theatre is going to be.

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