Oh jeez, here we go again...
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3Crowns
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Post subject: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:08 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:32 am Posts: 24
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Quote: In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121512.htm Quick without google..What is epidemiologist?
_________________ One shot, one kill... The rest of the mag is just for pleasure.
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Scott Hughes
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:22 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 1525 Location: Isanti, MN
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pfft; Philadelphia pfft......
_________________ “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -
WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM
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jdege
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:23 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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3Crowns wrote: Quick without google..What is epidemiologist? Someone who's expertise is in things other than inanimate objects.
_________________ Jeff Dege
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DeanC
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:33 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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3Crowns wrote: What is epidemiologist? The same people who invented the swine flu.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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Rodentman
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:00 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:09 pm Posts: 117 Location: South of the River
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I had my family Dr convinced that an Entomologist was an ear, nose, and throat Dr.
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larryflew
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:30 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 2:07 pm Posts: 112 Location: Young America
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mmcnx2
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:49 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 211 Location: Greenfield, MN
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I've got a math minor and I did not have to work to hard to understand they are making these statement based on about 40-41 cases 6% of the 677 cases. Now the tricky part is to determine if that sample is statistically representitive of the population. Again you don't need alot of 'trig' to determine based on the almost 2 million violent crimes committed each year that 41 or even the 677 cases is not a vaild sample.
Just once I which these idiots would do the math before they make half brained statements.
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AGoodDay
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:03 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm Posts: 666 Location: St Cloud
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Dang it. I can't get a copy of the article without paying for it. Have to wait a couple months before I can.
I was curious, and entertained, so I emailed it to my statistics professor for entertainment value and to see if I'm missing something in here.
_________________ Try not. Do or do not, but do not try. - Yoda
Never give up. Never, never, never. - Churchill
Stand on the shoulders of your giant.
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3Crowns
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:08 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:32 am Posts: 24
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jdege wrote: 3Crowns wrote: Quick without google..What is epidemiologist? Someone who's expertise is in things other than inanimate objects. haha after I read the article I was like "wait, what? Why is the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine doing studies about firearms? Maybe they are 4 times as likely to shoot eachother because they dont keep their finger off the trigger...
_________________ One shot, one kill... The rest of the mag is just for pleasure.
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AGoodDay
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:16 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm Posts: 666 Location: St Cloud
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mmcnx2 wrote: I've got a math minor and I did not have to work to hard to understand they are making these statement based on about 40-41 cases 6% of the 677 cases. Now the tricky part is to determine if that sample is statistically representitive of the population. Again you don't need alot of 'trig' to determine based on the almost 2 million violent crimes committed each year that 41 or even the 677 cases is not a vaild sample.
Just once I which these idiots would do the math before they make half brained statements. 40 cases is the minimum number considered to produce a statistically significant sample, depending on what shape the results take. The size of the sample after that doesn't really matter except in reducing the margin of error or increasing the confidence level, and size in relation to the population doesn't matter. Now, this is just someone who is taking statistics repeating what I've been taught, so take it for what you paid for it. I paid more for it, so it's worth more to me, but nobody cares but me about that.
_________________ Try not. Do or do not, but do not try. - Yoda
Never give up. Never, never, never. - Churchill
Stand on the shoulders of your giant.
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kimberman
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Post subject: Philidelphia study disembowled. Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:48 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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The long disgraced "Kellerman" model "study" applied ham-handedly to shootings rather than murders. Same predictible result, same faults, and the same JUNK SCIENCE. A classic example the truth of the statement that "statistics don't lie but statisticians do." http://volokh.com/2009/10/05/guns-did-n ... n-assault/
_________________ President of AACFI, GOCRA, CCRN, and A2A
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:48 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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Traveler
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:30 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm Posts: 845 Location: Saint Paul
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Why don't these researchers just come out and say definitively that they would like everyone that is confronted with a firearm to just stand there and be shot?
It would be very enlightening to just have them state that there is no right to self-defense. All overt illegal actions may not be stopped, stymied, or thwarted.
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chunkstyle
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:10 pm |
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:28 pm Posts: 2362 Location: Uptown Minneapolis
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Quote: 40 cases is the minimum number considered to produce a statistically significant sample, depending on what shape the results take. The size of the sample after that doesn't really matter except in reducing the margin of error or increasing the confidence level, and size in relation to the population doesn't matter.
But that assumes no errors in sample selection, and more significantly, no bias in sample selection deliberately induced to skew results to a desired end. This is when science becomes propaganda.
_________________ "The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960
"Man has the right to deal with his oppressors by devouring their palpitating hearts." - Jean-Paul Marat
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Selurcspi
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Post subject: Re: Oh jeez, here we go again... Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:10 am |
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
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Rodentman wrote: I had my family Dr convinced that an Entomologist was an ear, nose, and throat Dr. If I were you I'd dump this Dr. he obviously didn't go to medical school where the meaning of the composit parts of "otorhinolaryngologist" are taught.
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
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