Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive :: View topic - (WI) WI Gun Owners (assn) You gotta read this on THR

Quote:

To: executivedirector@wisconsingunowners.org
Subj: Stop sabotaging Wisconsin carry!

Your actions in opposing Zien's bill are commonly called, in politics, "letting the perfect be the enemy of the good."

You claim to be no-compromise. In politics, those who don't compromise DON'T GET ANYTHING.

You have to walk before you can run.

Your fearmongering emails incorrectly assert a number of gun control measures. You don't include a link to the actual bill so that gun owners can read it for themselves.

You do, however, make several pitched for people to pay some dues and join your organization.

Who are you really working for? Gun owners, or your own little organization?

While you are screaming "no compromise!" and dividing Wisconsin gun owners when unity is called for, I have been carrying a gun almost every day, almost everywhere, with a Minnesota carry permit issued under a law very similar to the proposed Wisconsin permit law.

Is the law perfect? Nope, but it's very good. And it's 1000% better than nothing. There are currently 30,000 people with Minnesota carry permits, and ZERO people with Wisconsin carry permits. Why are you working so hard to keep it that way?

Alaska has Vermont-style carry, but THEY GOT THERE IN STAGES.

You have to walk before you can run.

You have to change the hearts and minds of the common folk -- not the extremists on either side -- to effect change. You do that with compromise.

Stop throwing a tantrum like a three-year-old and start working in the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be.

You have to walk before you can run.

Get on board with the Zien bill, stop slamming those who already are, and then work for an even BETTER bill next year.

Sincerely,

Andrew Rothman

Andrew Rothman
Executive Director
Minnesota Association of Defensive Firearm Instructors
www.madfi.org

Author:	Aquaholic [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:	(WI) WI Gun Owners (assn) You gotta read this on THR
You just won't believe what WGO is doing to split support for the WI CC bill. All (Vermont style) or nothing. They even go so far as to have their supporters tell legislators that a vote FOR the current bill will be considered anti-gun by their group. Sorry to just link the thread, but this is some wild discussion, and too much to post. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=169563 (Edited to repair link)

Author:	BigRobT [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Wow, quite the debate there. I'm not so inclined to agree with the WGO, as I think the sheeple need proof that permit holders aren't going to go on a rampage. Sure, some will cull themselves out by being idiots about their CCW. I like the gradual progression of "may issue" to "shall issue" to "Vermont-style" that Alaska did. It makes sense, all in all. One step at a time. You gotta learn to walk before you can run!!

Author:	Pakrat [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:32 am ]
Post subject:
While I recognize May Issue as a step, I don't agree with that step. Not now anyways. With 30 some states as Shall Issue, it's past the time to go may issue. The elected police officials would fight the step from May issue to Shall issue harder than they are now. Wisconsin does have to take it slow. With Alaska, they probably already had a lot of open carry going on, so it was just second nature. Unfortuneatly Wisconsin citizens did not take advantage of their open carry ability.

Author:	Andrew Rothman [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:45 am ]
Post subject:
I think the THR mods must have deleted it. It's gone. This thread has survived: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.p ... hlight=wgo

Author:	Andrew Rothman [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:12 am ]
Post subject:
My letter to the group's leader: Quote: To: executivedirector@wisconsingunowners.org Subj: Stop sabotaging Wisconsin carry! Your actions in opposing Zien's bill are commonly called, in politics, "letting the perfect be the enemy of the good." You claim to be no-compromise. In politics, those who don't compromise DON'T GET ANYTHING. You have to walk before you can run. Your fearmongering emails incorrectly assert a number of gun control measures. You don't include a link to the actual bill so that gun owners can read it for themselves. You do, however, make several pitched for people to pay some dues and join your organization. Who are you really working for? Gun owners, or your own little organization? While you are screaming "no compromise!" and dividing Wisconsin gun owners when unity is called for, I have been carrying a gun almost every day, almost everywhere, with a Minnesota carry permit issued under a law very similar to the proposed Wisconsin permit law. Is the law perfect? Nope, but it's very good. And it's 1000% better than nothing. There are currently 30,000 people with Minnesota carry permits, and ZERO people with Wisconsin carry permits. Why are you working so hard to keep it that way? Alaska has Vermont-style carry, but THEY GOT THERE IN STAGES. You have to walk before you can run. You have to change the hearts and minds of the common folk -- not the extremists on either side -- to effect change. You do that with compromise. Stop throwing a tantrum like a three-year-old and start working in the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be. You have to walk before you can run. Get on board with the Zien bill, stop slamming those who already are, and then work for an even BETTER bill next year. Sincerely, Andrew Rothman Andrew Rothman Executive Director Minnesota Association of Defensive Firearm Instructors www.madfi.org

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(WI) WI Gun Owners (assn) You gotta read this on THR http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=559	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Aquaholic [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:22 am ]
Post subject:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=169563 This link should work, it's the original thread. Don't know what happened to the first link.

Author:	lance22 [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:02 am ]
Post subject:
I feel genuine pity for the folks in Wisconsin. One group that has been sponsoring and working for the current bill is labeled by another group as being secretly anti-gun. They in turn make a counter accusation that the non-participating group is secretly anti-gun. Yikes. The best thing they can do is go forward with the present bill, determined to ignore the nay-sayers who are trying to get Vermont-style laws in Wisconsin. Vermont style laws? They might as well add a bill to dissolve the IRS cuz vermont style thing is a pipe dream.

Author:	Big_R [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:
I've been watching this on THR too. I think the WGO needs to understand that if they want to get anywhere, they've got to play the game. Politics is dirty business, but you've got to dance with who brung ya (my grandfather used to say that). Ryan

Author:	Andrew Rothman [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:
He wrote back: Quote: Andrew, Thanks for writing. Perhaps I'll take up your firearm course - I'm sure you're a very knowledgeable expert in your field. Translation: "...but you don't understand politics the way I do...I've read a book!" Whatever. He's ranting, and I'm carrying. I'd say being a part of a political movement that compromises is working out better for me than his extremism is working out for him. Andrew Rothman wrote: My letter to the group's leader: Quote: To: executivedirector@wisconsingunowners.org Subj: Stop sabotaging Wisconsin carry! Your actions in opposing Zien's bill are commonly called, in politics, "letting the perfect be the enemy of the good." You claim to be no-compromise. In politics, those who don't compromise DON'T GET ANYTHING. You have to walk before you can run. <snip>

Author:	JDR [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:	WI State Senator mahes a stand
WI's Luther Olsen in WI, as quited quoted in the KABA web page <snip> WI: County's senators oppose weapons bill Submitted by: Bruce W. Krafft.... "It's probably not surprising that state Sen. Luther Olsen, R-Ripon, has received a few comments after being the only member of his party in the Senate to vote against the latest effort to overturn the state's 133-year ban on concealed weapons." "'I've gotten a lot of calls from people thanking me for standing up for what I believe in. I've gotten some e-mails ... from people who were unhappy that I voted against concealed carry, and hope that I would vote to support the override,' Olsen said in a phone interview Friday." ... "'I'm hoping as time goes on that we're more civil to each other. In my picture of Wisconsin, in a civil society, we don't need people carrying guns,' Olsen said." ...<snip>

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