Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive
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Gun Transport/ "Unloaded Firearms" Question
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=566		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  BigRobT [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Gun Transport/ "Unloaded Firearms" Question
OK, let's put aside the carry issue for a moment. (Except maybe MWCA events). Minnesota state law is pretty ambiguous about what consitutes a "loaded" firearm. The day I received my permit to carry, I asked the deputy about this. His opinion was similar to mine, no round chambered, magazine loaded, but not in the gun. He went further to say that other LEOs may not be that "lenient". As I interpret the law, it's not worded like California's transport law. Ca. law is pretty specific and to paraphrase it, basically, the cased gun and the ammo cannot be accessible by the driver at the same time. So, a cased gun can be in the vehicle, but the ammo should be in the trunk. (I'm not so sure how that works with a pickup truck or similar vehicle.) Minnesota law just simply says: "an unloaded & cased" firearm. It goes on to define what an acceptable case is, etc. but doesn't address the ammunition or magazine issues. Would a loaded magazine, seperated from the gun, but still carried be acceptable at the upcoming gun show?? Aquaholic & I both brought this question forward in another thread, but I haven't seen any answers. Does anybody know for sure?? What are the board members thoughts, opinions, and advice on this??
Author:  dcwn.45 [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:23 am ]
Post subject: 
This is directly from sherriff menden of scott county.the gun must be in a legal case,that means zipped , snapped, tied or somehow secured.ammo is up to you,a mag or speedloader on your belt,sitting next to you,in the case with the gun at slidelock,all are legal.in fact , he said this might be a viable option for those without a permit to carry.whether or not another officer will be "leniant" is BS.the law is clear.
Author:  BigRobT [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, that's how I see it. The reason I asked is that I was chastised by a FFL holder in St Cloud for carrying loaded magazines in the case with my gun. I don't see anything wrong with it, myself, but I was looking for clarification. The Deputy may have been covering himself because, more often than not, people like to have their own interpretations of the law, including LEOs. Before my permit days, I sure would have hated having my gun(s) confiscated and have to go to court to fight it. As you stated, the law seems clear. Actually, I think the Deputy worded it more like, "another Officer may not see it the same way" or something very close.
Author:  Pakrat [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:19 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with the literal interpertation of the law. As long as it's not loaded and in a case, you are legal.

If we are looking at the ban guns signs as not following the letter of the law because they used "on" instead of "in", then we have to believe that unloaded and in a fastened case is completely legal.
Author:  mobocracy [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:35 am ]
Post subject: 
BigRobT wrote:
The reason I asked is that I was chastised by a FFL holder in St Cloud for carrying loaded magazines in the case with my gun.


I don't know where I've read this or been told thus, but there's the possibility he was interpreting the gun safety concept of not storing a gun with ammunition.

I also seem to recall a criteria for "unloaded" gun relating to how many steps are involved in firing the gun, with the idea that you wanted at least 3 steps before the gun could be fired -- I think the steps include opening cases, inserting magazines, loading magazines, etc.

I wish I knew where *that* bit of information came from, but I forget the source or if its even relevent to MN law.
Author:  squib_joe [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:53 am ]
Post subject: 
The vast majority of cops that I've talked to consider a charged magazine next to a pistol a loaded gun. The theory being, I think, that the magazine is part of the firearm.

When people ask, I suggest thet they don't carry loaded magazines at all unless they have a permit.
Author:  cobb [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Squib_Joe wrote:
The vast majority of cops that I've talked to consider a charged magazine next to a pistol a loaded gun. The theory being, I think, that the magazine is part of the firearm.

Again, I am not trying to pick on law enforcement, but I am surprised as to how many law enforcement officers don't know the law.
I was told by one officer that it was illegal to walk down a rural township or county road with a loaded handgun in a holster on my hip, not concealed. He would not change his mind until I showed him the law, and he still said that he still thought it was illegal. :roll:
But now how many people know per the wording of the law that it is against the law to carry an unloaded, legally cased gun around in your car for no reason. Meaning you have to be going to/from or participating in a legal activity such as hunting, target shooting, etc. to be transporting the firearm. I have talked to several law enforcement about this and they all agree that it is an almost unenforceable law.

Let the flaming begin........ 8)
Author:  Brewman [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's why it's so important to err on the side of caution- even the LE don't always have a clear understanding of the law. Even if you are correct in the end, it's what may happen to you in the meantime that is so frightening.
A lot of the cops I'm around still refer to the permit as a "conceal and carry" permit. Hopefully they at least understang that conceal isn't required, and are just using the title, not believing it.

At the very very least, having a carry permit makes it much easier to transport guns in your vehicle.
Author:  Pakrat [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
It is nice to go to the range only carrying a box of ammo (in your hands).
Author:  JDR [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pakrat wrote:
It is nice to go to the range only carrying a box of ammo (in your hands).


Get a bandoleer that holds, oh, say, eight to ten magazines.

Then you won’t have to carry anything in your hands :D :D :D
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