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 Some common sense in Florida 
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 Post subject: Some common sense in Florida
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:15 pm 
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I like to read John Farnam's "Quips and Lessons Learned" on his web site at http://www.defense-training.com/

I was impressed with this entry.

Quote:
15Dec05

Church Security

I just completed a training program for a large, Christian church in FL. We trained the entire staff of ushers, which are being formed into unit that has a secondary (security) function. Some are cops and carry anyway, and a few others have local CCW permits and carry occasionally, but, for the most part, inconsistently. All carry now, and all have successfully completed the first phase of their training.

"Church security" seems a contradiction terms, but churches everywhere, particularly Christian churches, have been compelled to seriously address this issue. It is indigenous to our times!

The idea is to have a mini-police-force on property at all church functions, a force consisting of armed church members who are trained and can be called upon, at a moment's notice, to deal with a disturbance or a security emergency.

On a philosophical level, my students struggled with this notion, and it required a good deal of intense discussion for them to come to terms with their new responsibilities. In the end, all recognized that this was necessary a nd that they, each one, needed to step forward and participate.

I see this as a trend. Christian and Jewish churches will increasingly find themselves under attack, both ideologically and physically, by Marxist politicians and violent Islamic evangelists alike. Most will respond with naive denial, but some, like this one, will take reasonable, albeit reluctant, steps to confront this challenge. They deserve a lot of credit for confronting the threat honestly.

/John

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:57 pm 
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The churches up here probably WON'T get it until after a couple of tragic events happen. Which, IMHO, is pretty sad. Even Jesus said to sell your coat and go buy a sword. (so I've heard)

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"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.] -- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD),

The Nanny State MUST DIE!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:13 pm 
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This is a very good idea! It would be interesting to see if any local churchs would do this.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:56 pm 
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"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:00 pm 
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BigRobT wrote:
The churches up here probably WON'T get it until after a couple of tragic events happen. Which, IMHO, is pretty sad. Even Jesus said to sell your coat and go buy a sword. (so I've heard)


They probably still WON'T get it even after a few tragedies.
They don't wanna get it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:14 pm 
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hammAR wrote:
"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36


Ahhh, So that's what happened to "Midge" in the "Home Invasion" thread... :roll: :roll: Midge - He said SWORD! NOT AR! Sell the AR buy some cloths and THEN buy a sword!

Geeezze! Some people take their readings way too seriously!

Mostly-


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:05 pm 
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Srigs wrote:
This is a very good idea! It would be interesting to see if any local churchs would do this.
Guy's you are behind the times. Some churches do have arm people now. Here in Minneapolis.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:44 pm 
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Nothing new here. Anglican churches have traditionally employed a person, called a "sexton", to provide security. These have been armed since the Middle Ages.


Last edited by chunkstyle on Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:45 pm 
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True enough. Many more modern Anglican Churches have forgone this tradition or turned the sexton into a janitor . . . but back home in PA we had a sexton who carried a mean looking mace & I don't mean the spray . .. the shaft had to have been 1 1/2 inch and about 42 inches in length with a metal banded head. Not something I'd sign up to get clubbed with :wink: I think the traditional role of the sexton deffinitely has place and purpose in today's church.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:48 pm 
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My SO’s church not only responds with naive denial and have stated a strong position of passivity, but are one of the churches involved with the anti-law suits. I am involved with this church ONLY due to my SO and children’s involvement there. I struggled with this and have been compelled to address this issue with them. Their response is that guns, as well as anyone that carries guns, are not welcome.

So much for the Unitarian Universalist principles of intentionally diverse, multi-cultural spiritual community, committed to being inclusive, welcoming and nurturing, while reaching outward to serve, and to seek social justice..

Fortunately, there are several other CCW persons and who are all ex-military that have identified themselves to me privately and who have SO’s and children that also attend. It is reassuring that a covert force consisting of armed church members can be relied upon, at a moment's notice, to deal with a disturbance or a security emergency.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Church Ninjas? :lol:

I am sure that there are a few CCW holders at my church (at least one anyway) but I don't think I'm going to be organizing a SWAT team from them anytime soon.

A church, to me, is like any other public place - if the SHTF, observe report, respond only if directly threatened, and be an excellent witness.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Yeah, leave the church security to the sextons, but by golly bring back the real sextons and maybe find some legal loophole to allow the sextons to use SELECT FIRE weapons provided by the church as a legal corporation :wink: :wink:


Oh, and sign me up for that job while you are at it :D

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Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:16 pm 
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Not church ninjas or any form of organization,
just a knowledge of assets with a common objective of being there to care for our kids......... :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:51 am 
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I think you will find the squishyness index is directly related to the importance placed to the belief in the truth of the bible.
If the Bible is not taken seriously, nothing else will be.

Here's another good quote for you:

Proverbs 21:31 The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD.

The horse was considered the WMD of the time.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:07 am 
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I'm surprised I missed this thread till today... I belong to a rather large metro congregation, as such I am part of my churches security/emergency response/first aid team. We have several full time LEOs, reserve officers, former military, licenced carriers, paramedics, nurses, etc. that make up our team. There is no major church event that isn't staffed by at least several from this group. We have a nicely stocked first-aid center (trauma bags, back boards, AEDs, O2, etc.) as well as a first rate dispatch center with the ability to see almost every square inch of the church campus via digital CCTV.

We have been praised time and again by our local PD, rescue, and ambulance service, on the occasions we have had to request their assistance, for our efficiency and professionalism during medical/security incidents. Furthermore, we like to think that for the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread, that we provide an important service to the members and guests of our church. We like to not be needed, but when we are, people sure are glad to see us...

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