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 Using a short-barreled AR for HD in the Twin Cities... 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:21 am 
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Sixstring wrote:
Suppressors are a No-No in Minnesota.


Are we sure about this? I thought it simply required the same $200 tax stamp that a sawed-off shotgun or full auto required.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:28 am 
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nmat wrote:
Sixstring wrote:
Suppressors are a No-No in Minnesota.


Are we sure about this? I thought it simply required the same $200 tax stamp that a sawed-off shotgun or full auto required.


Can't do full-auto unless it falls under C&R, I believe (except for folks who hold the "nicer" FFLs).

States do get to control suppressor fun as well. :?

-Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:06 am 
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609.66, Minnesota Statutes 2007
Quote:
Subd. 1a. Felony crimes; silencers prohibited; reckless discharge. (a) Except as otherwise
provided in subdivision 1h, whoever does any of the following is guilty of a felony and may be
sentenced as provided in paragraph (b):
(1) sells or has in possession any device designed to silence or muffle the discharge of
a firearm;

...

Subd. 1h. Silencers; authorized for law enforcement and wildlife control purposes. (a)
Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a), clause (1), licensed peace officers may use devices
designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm for tactical emergency response operations.
Tactical emergency response operations include execution of high risk search and arrest warrants,
incidents of terrorism, hostage rescue, and any other tactical deployments involving high risk
circumstances. The chief law enforcement officer of a law enforcement agency that has the need to
use silencing devices must establish and enforce a written policy governing the use of the devices.
(b) Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a), clause (1), until July 1, 2011, an
enforcement officer, as defined in section 97A.015, subdivision 18, a wildlife area manager,
an employee designated under section 84.0835, or a person acting under contract with the
commissioner of natural resources, at specific times and locations that are authorized by the
commissioner of natural resources may use devices designed to silence or muffle the discharge of
a firearm for wildlife control operations that require stealth. If the commissioner determines that
the use of silencing devices is necessary under this paragraph, the commissioner must:
(1) establish and enforce a written policy governing the use, possession, and transportation
of the devices;
(2) limit the number of the silencing devices maintained by the Department of Natural
Resources to no more than ten; and
(3) keep direct custody and control of the devices when the devices are not specifically
authorized for use.
Subd. 2. Exceptions. Nothing in this section prohibits the possession of the articles
mentioned by museums or collectors of art or for other lawful purposes of public exhibition.

Also, in regards to hunting:
97B.031 USE AND POSSESSION OF FIREARMS.
Quote:
Subd. 4. Silencers prohibited. Except as provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1h, a person
may not own or possess a silencer for a firearm or a firearm equipped to have a silencer attached.


(IANAL, but I belive silencers are illegal in Minnesota. This is most likely an attempt to prevent hitmen from assassinating people.)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:27 am 
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If you shoot someone with your "sawed off military machine gun" you will be crucified in the court of public opinion from whence your jury pool will be drawn. Beside you probably own an "arsenal" of military-style assault weapons.

You may be legally correct, but practically wrong.

Heck, they almost threw the book at the guy up north who shot that burglar with a .22 lr. There were some long days of puckered butt cheeks there until they let him off.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:33 am 
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I recently saw a home in another state where a 9mm left a Glock and traveled through a wood cutting board, through a wall which had two layers of 5/8 drywall, into another wall (5/8 again), through the fiberglass bath tub, through the cheep interior bathroom door, through another bedroom door, and stopping in an old wood dresser. It made me re-think of using a 9 or 357 at home since I know there is not that much between me and the neighbors. Our primaries are now shotguns w/4 buck in the house.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:34 am 
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DeanC wrote:
If you shoot someone with your "sawed off military machine gun" you will be crucified in the court of public opinion from whence your jury pool will be drawn. Beside you probably own an "arsenal" of military-style assault weapons.

You may be legally correct, but practically wrong.

Heck, they almost threw the book at the guy up north who shot that burglar with a .22 lr. There were some long days of puckered butt cheeks there until they let him off.


Well of course, a legally-owned SBR is neither "sawed-off", nor is it a "machine gun". I suspect you know that and are actually addressing the question I posed regarding public sentiment, specifically in the Twin Cities. For that I thank you.

I suspect that should I ever be involved in any type of shooting, be it in the home or out-and-about, that I'll receive whatever level of scrutiny the situation warrants. I am 100% positive that I'll not be able to be prosecuted criminally based on anything written in law. My concern is for being prosecuted because some detective / prosecutor / judge "doesn't like" the way I legally defended myself, and/or being convicted by a jury who choses to ignore the law. I'm of course also concerned about any civil liability I might be found to have, despite having done nothing "illegal".

I'm still undecided on the whole SBR issue. I know I'll have 1-3 ARs, and they'll all do the same job as the SBR, though with slightly less maneuverability in close quarters. No matter what I decide on the SBR, our 18" 870 will be the primary weapon in most home defense scenarios, with our handguns being more likely to be used than the AR as well (as a way to fight to the long-guns kept in the bedroom...).

Thanks all for the input. But don't stop now! More opinions & info give me a greater ability to choose what I believe to be the best solution for the task at hand. I appreciate it very much!


ps - Nice sig line DeanC! Hillary would be bad, but Obama would be dangerous. Extremely brief rant done...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:46 pm 
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I'd prefer my nieghbor use something that would use a JHP. Something big and slow.

It will depend heavly on the contruction we are taking about. Most homes in my neighborhood were built 1900-1930 and some good ones have some rather sturdy construction.

My former neighbor took a shot at a invader with a AR-15 in the spring of 2008. The .223 round missed the target, and passed through an amazing number of items in its path. I could list the items but it would be overkill.

No way a JHP handgun round could do what that .223 did in the type of house in question.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:17 pm 
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mojocatt wrote:
I'd prefer my nieghbor use something that would use a JHP. Something big and slow.

It will depend heavly on the contruction we are taking about. Most homes in my neighborhood were built 1900-1930 and some good ones have some rather sturdy construction.

My former neighbor took a shot at a invader with a AR-15 in the spring of 2008. The .223 round missed the target, and passed through an amazing number of items in its path. I could list the items but it would be overkill.

No way a JHP handgun round could do what that .223 did in the type of house in question.


Read up on the tests done by the FBI and others - .223, especially 55gr bullets, are actually less likely to over penetrate than are either most handgun rounds, or buckshot. The .223 is so light that it begins to tumble shortly after impact, and is less likely to be lethal after going through a wall or two than is a typical 9mm, .40, .45 HP, or buckshot. It isn't an intuitive conclusion, but that is what the tests found.

Now, I'd rather not be the person on the receiving end of a .223 bullet after its passed through 2 or 3 walls, even if it is the less-likely-to-be-lethal option. My point is just to be fully educated on what is going to happen to any round that you fire that might miss the BG...

The best line I've read regarding this subject is that "every bullet has a lawyer attached to it". In the end, the best weapon / ammo to pick is whatever you are most likely to be accurate with, that has sufficient terminal ballistics to 'stop the threat' (i.e. NOT bird shot!), and then only fire when you have no other choice. If it has truly gotten to that point, then you do what you have to do, and deal with the consequences later.

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"It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged


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