GA: More Wrong Address No Knock
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DeanC
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Post subject: GA: More Wrong Address No Knock Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:26 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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Quote: [url=http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=8095079&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1]Homeowner Says Gwinnett Police Raid Wrong Home, Shoot Dog [/url] Created: Wednesday, 17 Dec 2008, 6:30 PM EST
GWINNETT COUNTY, Ga. (MyFOX ATLANTA) – A family in Gwinnett County was outraged Wednesday night after they say police officers shot their beloved dog. The homeowners said the incident happened because police went to the wrong house.
The homeowner said Gwinnett County police went to her house at 1468B Pirkle Road in Norcross, between Jimmy Carter Boulevard and Indian Trail.
The homeowner said when police went into the garage she heard three shots. The homeowner said an officer told her they shot the dog and the dog ran off.
The 2-year-old Dalmatian was found the Wednesday morning at a neighbor's home.
Officer said they were looking for a material witness in a gang member's trial, but they entered the wrong home. Police entered 1468B, instead of 1468A.
Officers said the dog charged and the officer felt he was in imminent danger and shot the dog.
This story content provided by FOX 5 Atlanta WAGA
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:15 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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DeanC
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:32 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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I had to re-read both stories a couple times to make sure one wasn't a duplicate. Astounding.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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Carbide Insert
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:56 am |
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Poet Laureate |
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:36 am Posts: 760 Location: Hutchinson, MN
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_________________ It's not always easy these days to tell which of our two major political parties is the Stupid Party and which is the Evil Party...
But it remains true that from time to time they collaborate on something that's both stupid and evil and call it bipartisanship. -Thomas E. Woods Jr.
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:29 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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Most of the trainers do a dog shoot. And some of the cops want to act out the trainer's fantasies.
When police attack your dogs territory on a no-knock warrant, your family dog will sense the danger and might well actually attack. He will put on a show, at least.
Knowing that, they should carry a catch stick because a bullet will not always stop a dog quickly and the bullets can ricochet all over, and it's easy for a defense attorney to protray the police as assholes to a jury.
If the officers would each check each the case before entry, instead of just relying on the leader like a bunch of privates, and if the trainers weren't often just guys who can't be trusted on the streets anymore this would not happen.
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lance22
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:55 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 am Posts: 817 Location: Eagan, MN
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Don't be hard on them. It's takes a true scholar to nail research all the way down to "address" and "house description". Normal research only covers stuff like "saw a suspicious vehicle" "down the street that way" "maybe about six houses down".
_________________ Clinging to guns and religion.
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MostlyHarmless
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:52 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm Posts: 471 Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
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There do seem to be plenty of incidents where a cop has been quick to shoot a family pet without looking very hard for alternatives. Maybe the shooter has never had a dog and doesn't understand their behavior.
Now, I'm not going to carry water for the Gwinnett Police. I used to live there and they have never enjoyed a sterling reputation among the locals. However, a look at the area with Google Street view makes it clear that it would be easy to mix up the house numbers. In fact, there doesn't appear to be a 1468B in the street view leading me to wonder whether the address is perhaps a manufactured home recently moved onto a vacant lot visible in the photos. Nonetheless, a briefing from whoever had been conducting the surveillance could have prevented the whole thing.
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PocketProtector642
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:23 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 am Posts: 702 Location: St. Paulish
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Warrant??? The story wasn't very detailed, but did they have a warrant? If so I think we should make a new law that requires them to read it.
_________________ Proud owner of 2 wonderful SGH holsters. "If man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Th 3:14) "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" -Jesus (Luke 22:36)
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Scott Hughes
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:19 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 1525 Location: Isanti, MN
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In my view it's worth one hell of a lot more....In a bad shoot it's worth his job, civil, and possibly criminal liability
_________________ “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -
WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM
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Carbide Insert
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:22 pm |
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Poet Laureate |
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:36 am Posts: 760 Location: Hutchinson, MN
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Carbide Insert wrote: A family's dog is worth at least an officer's toe.
By the way, I agree with you Scott.
100%
_________________ It's not always easy these days to tell which of our two major political parties is the Stupid Party and which is the Evil Party...
But it remains true that from time to time they collaborate on something that's both stupid and evil and call it bipartisanship. -Thomas E. Woods Jr.
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Scott Hughes
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:37 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 1525 Location: Isanti, MN
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_________________ “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -
WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM
Last edited by Scott Hughes on Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tullibee
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:37 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:49 pm Posts: 282 Location: Brooklyn Center
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PocketProtector642 wrote: Warrant??? The story wasn't very detailed, but did they have a warrant? If so I think we should make a new law that requires them to read it.
but at least for some of these guys (like the leaders), we'd have to figure out a way for the lawyers to translate the legalese into Dick and Jane format!!! If they would just hire a couple 12 or 13 year olds to read the addresses, ride by on their bicycles and verify that "yes, there appeared to be thug-types or hookers hanging out in the yard and not an old lady hanging up laundry" (or in our area, "nope, looked like a nice asian family instead of a black gang member living there"), it seems like they could avoid many of these incidents.
I don't think we'll be able to really do anything about the no-knock abuse that seems to be getting worse, unless the actual departments AND the officers involved start being held liable for damages and punishments when these things go wrong -- judgements that get paid off by the city insurance don't seem to be having much effect...
_________________ what part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand by so many people?
gun control means hitting where you aim!
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Carbide Insert
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:14 pm |
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Poet Laureate |
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:36 am Posts: 760 Location: Hutchinson, MN
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tullibee wrote: I don't think we'll be able to really do anything about the no-knock abuse that seems to be getting worse, unless the actual departments AND the officers involved start being held liable for damages and punishments when these things go wrong -- judgements that get paid off by the city insurance don't seem to be having much effect...
What a novel idea! If only we had a document that outlined that very system...
Oh wait. We do. The Fourth Amendment.
The idea is that the person who swears on oath and affirmation (thus obtaining a warrant for search or siezure of specific things, in a specific place), that the material in the warrant is true, takes upon themselves before a judge the personal responsibility and liability of intruding on the rights of the person named in the warrant - or, by extension, any accidental wrongs comitted against the owner of "the wrong house", or case of mistaken identity.
They are, in fact, sticking their own heads out on the chopping block for the citizen to seek damages against (should anything sworn to be true in the warrant, later be found false or innacurate). In my opinion, that includes shooting dogs that were not named to be shot on sight in the warrant.
I see tremendous wisdom in that. If only we would follow the Constitution...
But then, I'm also of the opinion that we should have peace officers and sheriffs, instead of "Law Enforcement" and associated city law enforcement corporations. Call me crazy.
_________________ It's not always easy these days to tell which of our two major political parties is the Stupid Party and which is the Evil Party...
But it remains true that from time to time they collaborate on something that's both stupid and evil and call it bipartisanship. -Thomas E. Woods Jr.
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Macx
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:02 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm Posts: 1757 Location: Whittier
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I like that way of thinking, however in practice the people swearing to the warrant usually have some sort of legislated immunity from liability.
For example: If a DHS investigator was told to bugger off when he wouldn't say why he wanted in the home and got his feelings hurt and decided to contact an MPD officer and say fabricate facts and then the MPD officer swears to the warrant with no first hand knowledge or even contact with the people involved and then the MPD SWAT sacks the house while the subject of the warrant isn't home & they do a massive ammount of property damage. Well, Quote: 626.556 Subd. 4.Immunity from liability.(a) The following persons are immune from any civil or criminal liability that otherwise might result from their actions, if they are acting in good faith: So basically, if you assert your 4th ammendment right not to be searched without warrant, a DHS worker can and will lie in a good faith effort to get a warrant, under the guise of "its for the children". Just a heads up, the government officials have already been granted immunity from liability in this area.
_________________ Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438
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Carbide Insert
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:58 pm |
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Poet Laureate |
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:36 am Posts: 760 Location: Hutchinson, MN
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Macx wrote: in practice the people swearing to the warrant usually have some sort of legislated immunity from liability. Macx, you are making my point for me. That should not exist, and is contrary to the implications of the 4th. Macx wrote: the government officials have already been granted immunity from liability in this area. Uh-huh. By... other government officials? I wish I could grant myself immunity for a variety of things. And so, lest I be accused of being a broken record, Carbide Insert wrote: If only we would follow the Constitution...
_________________ It's not always easy these days to tell which of our two major political parties is the Stupid Party and which is the Evil Party...
But it remains true that from time to time they collaborate on something that's both stupid and evil and call it bipartisanship. -Thomas E. Woods Jr.
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