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Oops...Park/Monument carry is on-hold
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Author:  phorvick [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Oops...Park/Monument carry is on-hold
Judge Blocks Bush Rule Allowing Concealed Weapons in National Parks

By Del Quentin Wilber
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 19, 2009; 5:35 PM

A federal judge today blocked a last-minute rule enacted by President Bush allowing visitors to national parks to carry concealed weapons.

U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly issued a preliminary injunction in a lawsuit brought by gun-control advocates and environmental groups. The Justice Department had sought to block the injunction against the controversial rule.

The three groups that brought the suit -- the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the National Parks Conservation Association and the Coalition of National Park Service Retires -- argued the Bush Administration violated several laws in issuing the rule.

In her ruling, Kollar-Kotelly agreed that the government's process had been "astoundingly flawed."

The regulation took effect Jan. 9 and allowed visitors to carry loaded concealed guns into national parks and wildlife refuges. In the past, they had been allowed in such areas only if they were unloaded, stored or dismantled.
Author:  Ramoel [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
One more "Change" to enhance my life. With everything going downhill since January, I've already achieved my maximum disgust level.

How many times can you puke before you go dry?
Author:  mrokern [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
See my other post, and please stop the instant bashing by party. The administration is actually currently taking OUR side on this one.

Now for how long...? That's the question.

This judge isn't a simple one to read. Liberal-appointed, but currently heads the FISC.

-Mark
Author:  Jeremiah [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:47 am ]
Post subject: 
mrokern wrote:
See my other post, and please stop the instant bashing by party. The administration is actually currently taking OUR side on this one.


Good luck with all that around here... :roll: :wink:
Author:  mrokern [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Jeremiah wrote:
mrokern wrote:
See my other post, and please stop the instant bashing by party. The administration is actually currently taking OUR side on this one.


Good luck with all that around here... :roll: :wink:


It's why I took a vacation from posting for a few months up until recently. Better for my blood pressure.

I'm a conservative, but I believe in Goldwater, not Fox News. I'm also a bit of a snob about politics. I went to college for Political Science, I regularly contact elected officials and get involved, I have my own political blog, and I have no patience for people who don't have the ambition to understand an issue beyond blindly hating one person. It's why the GOP is getting its butt kicked around the block.

-Mark
Author:  DeanC [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Well it was nice of Bush to <strike>get right on that executive order in his first days in office so everyone would be acclimated to the normalcy of carry in National Parks by the time the next administration came in</strike> take a lame duck parting shot on his way out the door that he knew full well would be quickly overturned.
Author:  phorvick [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:12 am ]
Post subject: 
DeanC wrote:
Well it was nice of Bush to <strike>get right on that executive order in his first days in office so everyone would be acclimated to the normalcy of carry in National Parks by the time the next administration came in</strike> take a lame duck parting shot on his way out the door that he knew full well would be quickly overturned.
That simply is not true. This was not a parting gift to gun owners. It had been in the works for many years, including many months of public commentary for and against the proposed rule change.

To suggest that this was something done by EO is not true. You have drunk the Obama Kool-Aid.

This was a proposed change for years, went through all the hoops, and became 100% legal on January 9th. It cannot be overturned by EO; it can be argued that the process was flawed...and that is the rung the anti's are trying to climb.
Author:  DeanC [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, the timing was still poor IMO. He had eight years and it didn't get finished until the last minute. He was supposed to be the supreme executive in the land.

I should add, being dismayed by Bush does not equal pro-Obama. You are 180 degrees out of phase if you are thinking about me.
Author:  phorvick [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:52 am ]
Post subject: 
DeanC wrote:
Well, the timing was still poor IMO. He had eight years and it didn't get finished until the last minute. He was supposed to be the supreme executive in the land.

I should add, being dismayed by Bush does not equal pro-Obama. You are 180 degrees out of phase if you are thinking about me.
I was not suggesting anything about your politics except that many people ...maybe you...believed that this was a Bush gift to gun owners and did not realize that this is not at all true. I.e., people are believing that lie pushed by Obama and the anti's.

You also mentioned poor timing... I would suggest that the timing was terrific....it got 100% concluded on time...before O took office. I think that is pretty good timing.
Author:  jaysong [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:51 am ]
Post subject: 
mrokern wrote:

I'm a conservative, but I believe in Goldwater, not Fox News. I'm also a bit of a snob about politics. I went to college for Political Science, I regularly contact elected officials and get involved, I have my own political blog, and I have no patience for people who don't have the ambition to understand an issue beyond blindly hating one person. It's why the GOP is getting its butt kicked around the block.

-Mark


I respectfully disagree. IMO the GOP is getting it's ass kicked because many of them either lack or will not stand on common sense principles that most Americans believe in. Many also lack a backbone IMO. They want to be liked by the press and others more the do the right thing. I would classify myself as a conservative, but more so as a classical liberal. I do agree that labels should be much less important than core principles and beliefs. I believe we should focus on individuals actions to judge them than party affiliation. There used to be a greater distinction between Democrats and Republican than there is today. :(
Author:  mrokern [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
jaysong wrote:
mrokern wrote:

I'm a conservative, but I believe in Goldwater, not Fox News. I'm also a bit of a snob about politics. I went to college for Political Science, I regularly contact elected officials and get involved, I have my own political blog, and I have no patience for people who don't have the ambition to understand an issue beyond blindly hating one person. It's why the GOP is getting its butt kicked around the block.

-Mark


I respectfully disagree. IMO the GOP is getting it's ass kicked because many of them either lack or will not stand on common sense principles that most Americans believe in. Many also lack a backbone IMO. They want to be liked by the press and others more the do the right thing. I would classify myself as a conservative, but more so as a classical liberal. I do agree that labels should be much less important than core principles and beliefs. I believe we should focus on individuals actions to judge them than party affiliation. There used to be a greater distinction between Democrats and Republican than there is today. :(


Actually, I think you and I are seeing the same problem, just looking at different causes of it. I blame the operatives because by and large they decide who is going to be able to run (they control the funding, meaning they control the candidates).

Common sense is out the door these days, and the GOP is getting strung along by a small but vocal minority of conservatives who do not represent most of our interests.
Author:  jaysong [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
mrokern wrote:
jaysong wrote:
mrokern wrote:

I'm a conservative, but I believe in Goldwater, not Fox News. I'm also a bit of a snob about politics. I went to college for Political Science, I regularly contact elected officials and get involved, I have my own political blog, and I have no patience for people who don't have the ambition to understand an issue beyond blindly hating one person. It's why the GOP is getting its butt kicked around the block.

-Mark


I respectfully disagree. IMO the GOP is getting it's ass kicked because many of them either lack or will not stand on common sense principles that most Americans believe in. Many also lack a backbone IMO. They want to be liked by the press and others more the do the right thing. I would classify myself as a conservative, but more so as a classical liberal. I do agree that labels should be much less important than core principles and beliefs. I believe we should focus on individuals actions to judge them than party affiliation. There used to be a greater distinction between Democrats and Republican than there is today. :(


Actually, I think you and I are seeing the same problem, just looking at different causes of it. I blame the operatives because by and large they decide who is going to be able to run (they control the funding, meaning they control the candidates).

Common sense is out the door these days, and the GOP is getting strung along by a small but vocal minority of conservatives who do not represent most of our interests.


I know what you are saying, but refuse to accept it. We collective get what we want or tolerate. IMO, no matter what your beliefs are we get what we accept or allow. If we stand more on principle we get more of what we want. If we attempt to go for it all the way, no matter what it is, the compromise position will always be closer to what we want than if we start at the compromised position as long as what we are going for is based on sound principles. I don't know if I am making sense, but I know what I mean :oops: 8) .
Author:  mrokern [ Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
jaysong wrote:
mrokern wrote:
jaysong wrote:
mrokern wrote:

I'm a conservative, but I believe in Goldwater, not Fox News. I'm also a bit of a snob about politics. I went to college for Political Science, I regularly contact elected officials and get involved, I have my own political blog, and I have no patience for people who don't have the ambition to understand an issue beyond blindly hating one person. It's why the GOP is getting its butt kicked around the block.

-Mark


I respectfully disagree. IMO the GOP is getting it's ass kicked because many of them either lack or will not stand on common sense principles that most Americans believe in. Many also lack a backbone IMO. They want to be liked by the press and others more the do the right thing. I would classify myself as a conservative, but more so as a classical liberal. I do agree that labels should be much less important than core principles and beliefs. I believe we should focus on individuals actions to judge them than party affiliation. There used to be a greater distinction between Democrats and Republican than there is today. :(


Actually, I think you and I are seeing the same problem, just looking at different causes of it. I blame the operatives because by and large they decide who is going to be able to run (they control the funding, meaning they control the candidates).

Common sense is out the door these days, and the GOP is getting strung along by a small but vocal minority of conservatives who do not represent most of our interests.


I know what you are saying, but refuse to accept it. We collective get what we want or tolerate. IMO, no matter what your beliefs are we get what we accept or allow. If we stand more on principle we get more of what we want. If we attempt to go for it all the way, no matter what it is, the compromise position will always be closer to what we want than if we start at the compromised position as long as what we are going for is based on sound principles. I don't know if I am making sense, but I know what I mean :oops: 8) .


You are making sense, and again, I think I'm with you. The problem is that too many people tolerate the crap that's put out there for us to accept. Until we get more people to make noise and take a stand, we're going to have to choke down even more garbage.
Author:  Dick Unger [ Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:36 am ]
Post subject: 
It can be hard to choose between "common sense" and "principles" as a basis for political policy....
Author:  PocketProtector642 [ Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
NRA appeals ruling blocking guns in national parks
By MATTHEW DALY – 23 hours ago
Full story
WASHINGTON (AP) — The National Rifle Association on Friday appealed a federal court ruling that blocked a Bush administration policy allowing people to carry concealed, loaded guns in national parks....
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