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1911 issues, thinking about trading...
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9477		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  rudy [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  1911 issues, thinking about trading...
Just a little background: I've been carrying a 1991a1 Colt Commander for about a month. I absolutely love it; although, I can't get it running 100%. I've had varying issues, tried different things, but now I'm sick of exprimenting because it's costing me $$$ (read: poor college student, saved $$ here and there to buy something nice when I turned 21). I like the 1911, it fits my hand and I can hit things reliably with it, but I'm losing patience in trying to get it working. Also: beavertails are a must, my commander has a little bit of a nub on it to prevent hammerbite, but that sucker is shaaaarp and tears my hand up.

I carry it in a sparks vm2 and it disappears under a t-shirt while standing, but if I bend or lean, or...just about anything really, it prints quite noticeably (5'10" 145lbs). Normally this wouldn't bother me, since open carry is legal, but I'm a college student (read: considering carrying on campus against school policy since it's not illegal, but think it might be extremely risky with current setup--but may not choose to carry at all, I haven't decided yet). Also, the weight of an all steel pistol doesn't bother me.

I've been thinking about what I wanted for my next pistol (when funds permit), and I decided on a J-frame. Then it dawned on me: I can just trade my Commander on a J-frame. It'd be more easily concealable and would always go bang.

So, on to my question: what would you guys recommend for a j-frame?

I've heard varying opinions on 38spl vs 357mag, but I'm leaning towards 38spl for both cost and the fact that 357mag doesn't seem to give that much of a ballistic performance boost over 38spl +p when shot out of a 2" barrel, comments?

Also, hammerless or not? I've been spoiled with my nice single action trigger (the 1911 is my first and only pistol), and worry about a DAO like a 642. I've never shot a revolver, so I'm not sure which way to lean. It would likely be carried in something like a smartcarry or pocket, so I'm leaning towards hammerless, to prevent snags. Comments?

Also, what could I expect to get for trade in value on my Commander? I've shot about 700 rounds through it, but it's no worse for wear, in my opinion. No scratches and no idiot mark. I paid $799 for it new and don't have any experience really in selling/trading, how much of a hit should I expect to take?

So the long and short of it is: is the 642 the best all around j-frame for what I intend to do with it? (exclusively concealed carry, probably smartcarry or pocket)

Thanks guys, appreciate it.
Author:  jaysong [ Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
First of all Rudy, welcome to the TCC forum. I have two 1911s and a SW 642 (38spl J frame) Just like you see in the upper left corner of your browser. They are very different to shoot and both great guns. I would strongly suggest that you shoot the J frame (or any gun you may be interested in for that matter) before you purchase or trade. Ask a friend who may have one or go and rent one from a shooting range. Another thing to consider is between 38slp and 357 is that you can shoot 38spl through a 357 but not the other way around. I would recommend the shrouded hammer (like the 642) if this will be a defense gun to carry as you indicated. For a range gun I prefer having the exposed hammer. Good luck on your quest and please keep us informed on how it turns out.
Author:  Srigs [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome to the forum.

jaysong has good advise there. Try different guns if you can. Getting a J-frame that enables 357 makes it nice option to have. I have shot 357 rounds through a Model 60 and Taurus 605 both steel based revolvers and not issue with them.

I'm not a good 1911 guy so I can't help you there but there are a bunch of the 1911 folks who will help you.
Author:  jac714 [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:22 am ]
Post subject: 
The first question I would ask is the round count throught the 1911, in most cases they need about 1000 rounds of factory ball to "break-in" the other would be what type of malfunction you are having?

In many cases 1911 manufacturers include crappy cheap mags because so many of us go out and buy the brand/model of mags we personally like.

I also have a j-frame in .38 sp +p and it is my deep cover/grab and stuff in my pocket for a quick run to the store. If is a great carry gun but in my opinion a bit lacking. I have done some chrono tests on .38 vs .357 j-frames and the increase in velocity is not enough to (IMHO) justify the larger muzzel flash and recoil but YMMV.

Let me know if I can be of any help.
Author:  rudy [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:05 am ]
Post subject: 
jac714 wrote:
The first question I would ask is the round count throught the 1911, in most cases they need about 1000 rounds of factory ball to "break-in" the other would be what type of malfunction you are having?


I've got approximately 700 rounds through it, all with wilson mags. I'm having issues with premature slidelock, so I got a wilson bulletproof slidestop to see if that would help. It has a detent for the plunger to push against to help prevent early slidelock. This helped a bit, but after installing it, I had one instance where it failed to lock open and was still having the problem of early slidelock. (about 200 rounds through it with the new slidestop)

Also, after installing the different slidestop, I was getting stovepipes on almost every last round in the magazine. The unspent cartridge was sticking straight up in the ejection port. I actually had one pop all the way out and almost hit me in the face. But it wasn't always the last round, and the early slidelock problem was still happening.

I like the 1911 platform, it fits and points well for me, but I need an officer's frame or a bobtail to conceal it properly. Both options require more $$, which I'll have upon graduation and getting a real job (hopefully), but for now, trading my troubled 1911 for something I can pocket carry seems the best course of action.
Author:  cobb [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:23 am ]
Post subject: 
rudy wrote:
I'm having issues with premature slidelock, so I got a wilson bulletproof slidestop to see if that would help. It has a detent for the plunger to push against to help prevent early slidelock. This helped a bit, but after installing it, I had one instance where it failed to lock open and was still having the problem of early slidelock. (about 200 rounds through it with the new slidestop)

Also, after installing the different slide stop, I was getting stovepipes on almost every last round in the magazine. The unspent cartridge was sticking straight up in the ejection port. I actually had one pop all the way out and almost hit me in the face. But it wasn't always the last round, and the early slidelock problem was still happening.

Have you someone analyze your grip or had someone experienced with a 1911 shoot yours? I was wondering if your thumb was riding the slide stop and maybe even impeding the cycling of the slide when you fire.

When you say stovepipes, I assume this is fired brass and not unfired rounds, or when you say unspent cartridge, you mean an unfired round? Fired brass and hitting you in the face could be an extractor adjustment. If this is a stovepipe with an unfired round, the COL could be too short, I have seen this several times on hand loaded ammunition do this exact thing.
Author:  Duane J [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:24 am ]
Post subject: 
rudy wrote:
jac714 wrote:
The first question I would ask is the round count throught the 1911, in most cases they need about 1000 rounds of factory ball to "break-in" the other would be what type of malfunction you are having?


I've got approximately 700 rounds through it, all with wilson mags. I'm having issues with premature slidelock, so I got a wilson bulletproof slidestop to see if that would help. It has a detent for the plunger to push against to help prevent early slidelock. This helped a bit, but after installing it, I had one instance where it failed to lock open and was still having the problem of early slidelock. (about 200 rounds through it with the new slidestop)

Also, after installing the different slidestop, I was getting stovepipes on almost every last round in the magazine. The unspent cartridge was sticking straight up in the ejection port. I actually had one pop all the way out and almost hit me in the face. But it wasn't always the last round, and the early slidelock problem was still happening.

I like the 1911 platform, it fits and points well for me, but I need an officer's frame or a bobtail to conceal it properly. Both options require more $$, which I'll have upon graduation and getting a real job (hopefully), but for now, trading my troubled 1911 for something I can pocket carry seems the best course of action.


I would definately shoot anything you are considering, as previously stated. But as for 2" .38's, the are probably the most concealable and easy to carry firearms out there. With a decent pocket holster (which is very inexpensive), you can just snatch it and drop it in your pocket on the way out the door.... no fuss. Bobbed or concealed hammer is the way to go for carry. They are a bit less fun at the range, but if you practice with it regularly, it isn't too difficult to become a very effective shooter with one. I carry a Taurus 85, similar to the smith j frame. It is one of 3 carry firearms I own, and it sees the most use by a large margin.

Good luck!!

D
Author:  Lawyer_in_Training [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:37 am ]
Post subject: 
If you like the 1911 trigger you're not going to like the DA of a revolver, but of course a working/reliable carry gun is better than the alternative.

I'd see if you can borrow some different mags. I bought some new Wilson mags when I got my Kimber and have actually had more problems with them than with the factory mag. (Including premature slidelock.) I won't be sending Wilson any more money for mags.
Author:  jac714 [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like you need to have the slidestop tuned.

If it is not tuned properly it can cause both problems you have mentioned. A round could be hitting it causing the premature slide lock and it could be hanging up on something and causing the unfired round to stovepipe.

The other problem may be the grip. I have problems with the slide not locking back due to my grip, I know of others who have had problems similar to yours also due to grip.

Good Luck, let me know if I can help.
Author:  rudy [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
cobb wrote:
Have you someone analyze your grip or had someone experienced with a 1911 shoot yours? I was wondering if your thumb was riding the slide stop and maybe even impeding the cycling of the slide when you fire.

When you say stovepipes, I assume this is fired brass and not unfired rounds, or when you say unspent cartridge, you mean an unfired round? Fired brass and hitting you in the face could be an extractor adjustment. If this is a stovepipe with an unfired round, the COL could be too short, I have seen this several times on hand loaded ammunition do this exact thing.


No, I haven't had anyone else shoot it, or look at my grip. I was actually in your permit to carry class about a month ago (Sunday June 22). I'm using a thumbs forward grip and started paying special attention to my offhand thumb after I started having premature slidelock issues.

I guess I'm not using the correct terminology, it's not a stovepipe as it's not spent brass. I've never had any trouble with it extracting/ejecting. These are all feed problems. The one that almost hit me in the face was a loaded round. It just popped all the way out, the rest just get stuck sticking straight up.
Author:  cobb [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:25 am ]
Post subject: 
rudy wrote:
cobb wrote:
Have you someone analyze your grip or had someone experienced with a 1911 shoot yours? I was wondering if your thumb was riding the slide stop and maybe even impeding the cycling of the slide when you fire.

When you say stovepipes, I assume this is fired brass and not unfired rounds, or when you say unspent cartridge, you mean an unfired round? Fired brass and hitting you in the face could be an extractor adjustment. If this is a stovepipe with an unfired round, the COL could be too short, I have seen this several times on hand loaded ammunition do this exact thing.


No, I haven't had anyone else shoot it, or look at my grip. I was actually in your permit to carry class about a month ago (Sunday June 22). I'm using a thumbs forward grip and started paying special attention to my offhand thumb after I started having premature slidelock issues.

I guess I'm not using the correct terminology, it's not a stovepipe as it's not spent brass. I've never had any trouble with it extracting/ejecting. These are all feed problems. The one that almost hit me in the face was a loaded round. It just popped all the way out, the rest just get stuck sticking straight up.

So your local to me, lets get together and shoot.
Author:  mmcnx2 [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  1911 tuning
Most problems with 1911's are due to people that don't know what they are doing fiddling with them. Just becuase you can parts everywhere, everyone thinks they are a gun smith.

Slide lock is mostly controlled by your magazines. There are alot of good ones out there but they dimensionally are all slightly different.

Put all the original parts back in and try your original mag's. Make sure your followers and springs are in good order and you might be surprised.

1911's are great but they are little more presice than your average plastic gun. I shoot both and my 1911's are far more accurate however they don't always like new parts.

Get a good smith and have them fit whatever new parts you're looking to change out, you'll be surprised who much difference it will make.
Author:  cobb [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
We are hooking up to check the problem out.

All will be taken care of. 8)
Author:  ttousi [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
cobb wrote:
We are hooking up to check the problem out.

All will be taken care of. 8)


Is your wife aware of this............. :shock:
Author:  cdl [ Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Last round bolt over base live round stovepipe... weak magazine spring, or less likely too strong a recoil spring. I've seen it when I change recoil springs and have a weak mag. I use a 20# recoil springs in a commander and the standard 22# in a ProCarry. The short ProCarry recoil springs don't seem to last as long. These 4" guns are finicky when it comes to mags. Wilson mags have light springs and lack the bump on the follower. Even the extra strength springs in a Wilson mag don't seem to cut it for me. They work great in my 5" guns though. I've given up on 8 round mags in a 4" gun and gone to 7+1. In an 8 round mag they have to use thinner wire to stuff the extra round in and some of the cheaper metal followers have a tendency to tip forward and batter the ramp. Bad news on an alloy frame. I'm having great luck with Wolf 7 rounder's. They even start with a heavier spring. Keeping the 8 rounder's working in my 4" guns seems too much like work.
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