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Glock grip angle theory
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=275		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Americans are different. Our legacy of a free association with firearms builds notions that are difficult to crack.


Jerry, thanks for posting that.

This, I think, explains a lot.
Author:  durbin6 [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Quote:
Americans are different. Our legacy of a free association with firearms builds notions that are difficult to crack.


Jerry, thanks for posting that.

This, I think, explains a lot.


Well it's not just a local topic by any means, I think Glocks fit some and don't fit others. It all probably boils down to muscle memory and muscle training. I do not however think that you should have to adjust your natural point of aim to accomodate a handgun and you shold select one that points naturally. Again, just my opinion.
Author:  Pakrat [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
durbin6 wrote:
I do not however think that you should have to adjust your natural point of aim to accomodate a handgun and you shold select one that points naturally.

So, based on BigRedBowTie's explaination; Is Glock a genius for creating a handgun that better uses your body to reduce the effects of shooting, or a not-so-genius because he reinvented the wheel and didn't do it as nicely(ergonomically)?

For example: Windows, it's a big peice of crap but it's EASY to use. They made it so even a monkey can work it. Then you have DOS and even Linux, they are(may be) more powerful, but harder to learn.
Author:  keith [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow. Interesting thread.

I own and shoot all kinds of handguns and never once has the grip angle been a problem. I go back and forth from Glocks to 1911's to revolvers (and Kahrs, P7s, you get the idea) all of the time. I don't notice a difference. I even had the oppurtunity to shoot an XD recently and just picked it up and started shooting. The sights seemed to be right where they always are for me on other guns.

As for the poor hits during stressful police situations I would have to say, in my personal opinion, that it is the stressful situation itself and not the grip angle of a particular handgun. Along with the fact that most street cops just plain don't get much range time in throughout the year. Enough to qualify and that's about it unless they are on a tactical unit or something. I'm not knocking cops and in fact lots of my friends are cops and they would agree with me on the training issue. But, the ones that do take the extra time to get some shooting in other than their quarterly quals? Boy, can those men and women SHOOT and it is great to see them at the range!

If you have never had the oppurtunity to shoot under stress I would suggest taking a force on force class using simunition guns. I know of at least one local training school that will do it for LEO and civilians alike.
The next best thing to simunitions is some sort of action pistol match. Granted nobody is shooting back at you, but, you would be surprised at the amount of adrenaline that is dumped into your body during a course of fire at these matches. I've seen hands shaking so bad at the end of a course of fire that it seems as if they couldn't have hit anything they were shooting at. But they did! I've been shooting action pistol competition for at least 8 years and it still happens to me. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. :D
Author:  G19 [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Glock grip angle is perfect
Just my humble opinion, but to me the Glock grip angle is perfect. I've tried a lot of different guns - both semi-auto and revolver - and nothing points as well for me as a Glock. If you extend your arm straight out and make a fist, then point your finger firmly straight out at something - then turn your hand in a look at it - that is the Glock grip angle. Maybe it's just me - but I haven't been able to find a gun that points better or feels more natural in my hand. Have tried - Colt Det. Sp, SW 340PD, Ruger SP101 - all with various grips -- Also, Kahr K9, Beretta Cougar 8040, Springfield Micro Compact 1911. None of them are as good for me as my G19. Also, the low bore axis on the Glock is an advantage over most of the others.
I'm not a Glock-only guy like some and enjoy shooting all of the guns above - just have yet to find one that, for me, points better than the Glock.
Author:  APD [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I shoot Glock 30 and 33 - that's a compact .45 ACP and a sub-compact .357 Sig. They're just easier to carry and conceal. So my grip is naturally high, since there isn't much room on the grip. Unless I have a grip extension on the 33, my pinky is completely off the grip. The Glock rep's explanation seems to make sense to me, since there is significant recoil from the 33 with a hot load, and the recoil is well centered on the axis of my arm. Same for the 30, but it's a bit heavier, so the recoil is less noticeable. They seem to point well for me, at least.
Author:  AGoodDay [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Glock's tended to point kinda high for me as well. That explanation by the Glock rep is interesting. I personally found something else out in using my buddies G19. I was doing some work under stress from the holster. I hadn't thought of this before for some reason, but in a stressful fight or flight situation, one of the things that happens is you lower your head. Under stress from competition with my friend, I lowered my head without realizing it, and my eye was aligned with the sights. I was wondering if that may be behind the design.
Author:  Widge [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
In my Dept we carry Sigs. These I shoot well (not expert, but well). We decided to evaluate the Glock 22 and 35 Longslide after some pressure from one of our outside instructors. Not one person could shoot them worth a shit, even those who normally shoot 'expert'. The 22 was painful to shoot, and the longslide was just 'wrong' somehow. A month later we tried a couple of XDs, the 'Service' and the 'Tactical' in .40. Everyone loved them without exception and shoot them as well as, or better than their duty weapons.

Draw your own conclusions:
Are Glocks popular with Law Enforcement

a) Because they are an exceptional weapon that out performs all the others at a good price differential

or

b) Because Glock practically give them away (they would have charged us $50 plus our old Sigs in trade) to Law Enforcement.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Widge wrote:
In my Dept we carry Sigs. These I shoot well ...

...We decided to evaluate the Glock 22 and 35...

...Not one person could shoot them worth a shit, even those who normally shoot 'expert'.


Well, doesn't that make sense, since you are all used to the Sigs?

For a control group, we gotta find a Glock department and make them shoot some Sigs... :)
Author:  Widge [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Widge wrote:
In my Dept we carry Sigs. These I shoot well ...

...We decided to evaluate the Glock 22 and 35...

...Not one person could shoot them worth a shit, even those who normally shoot 'expert'.


Well, doesn't that make sense, since you are all used to the Sigs?

For a control group, we gotta find a Glock department and make them shoot some Sigs... :)


Well, yeah, I suppose...but then, I'm not talking about putting a mag or two through them...I'm talking about we all put 200 rounds apiece through each gun, and they just weren't shooting right (the guns, not the shooters). I was really surprised since I was expecting at least a few of the better shots to come out and say they liked them, but not one did. It was a real eye opener to me, especially when the XDs were so much better, and roughly the same price; although the trade in offer was not nearly so attractive as Glocks.
Author:  cobb [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not that I can shoot for shit with a 1911, but with a Glock I shoot even worse than shit. The Glock ergonomics are all wrong for me, but a Springfield XD, or a Kahr seems fine. I haven’t had a chance to really run a course of fire with a Sig or HK, so I can’t offer any input on them compared to a Glock.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've never owned a Glock -- I've shot my Ruger P95 and Taurus PT111 a lot.

Last fall, I borrowed a G19 for a couple of mags and shot WAY better than I had been with my own guns.

Shrug. Whatever works for you, I say.
Author:  Pat Cannon [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Widge wrote:
...Because Glock practically give them away (they would have charged us $50 plus our old Sigs in trade) to Law Enforcement.

That's interesting. Do you suppose they grind the Sigs up, or does the sales rep get to sell them?
Author:  Moby Clarke [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I did not grow up around firearms. I bought my first gun when I was 25. It was a Taurus PT22; still have it. I taught my self about guns and how to shoot.

Then I started to buy different guns. I have owned a S&W TSW 4013, HK USPc in .40, a PPKS in .32, a G27 and G17 and others. The Glocks outshot everything else I owned and I will never be a "good shot". I now have one platform and that is the Glock 19. I own 2, one for carry, one for HD. I have a couple other guns I shoot for fun, but I do not shoot them as well as the 19. The TSW and the HK were by far, better quality guns. That HK was damn smooth and even with hot .40 loads the recoil was managable. But I still shot everything high.

I have a PP now and shoot it high. My friend shoots it to point of aim. I still enjoy shooting it, but I have found nothing that, for me, shoots as well as the Glock.

By the way, I have smallish hands and short fingers for a 6' man. I can not palm a basketball and can barely palm a womans basketball to give you a frame of reference. YMMV.
Author:  Widge [ Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Pat Cannon wrote:
Widge wrote:
...Because Glock practically give them away (they would have charged us $50 plus our old Sigs in trade) to Law Enforcement.

That's interesting. Do you suppose they grind the Sigs up, or does the sales rep get to sell them?


I believe they ship them to their stocking dealers to sell on.
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