Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:54 pm

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Frangible Ammunition 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:20 pm 
1911 tainted
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm
Posts: 3045
Quote:
I think my spell/grammer checker was taking a nap on my last post!

Ya, maybe. But we all understand,,, understood,,,knew, I mean know what you ment,,mean. :lol:


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: MagSafe Ammo
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:48 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:37 am
Posts: 935
Location: Victoria
I’ sure you are correct about the Taurus. I only have one Taurus left. It's a a featherweight 38 Special, for the wife. I have many others that work flawlessly. If I remember correctly the manufacture claimed that Air Marshals and swat teams use the rounds. Here is their link:

http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/magsafeammo/


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:21 pm 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:55 pm
Posts: 986
mlomker wrote:
JDR wrote:
Sent it back to Taurus, they fixed it for no charge. Soon as I got it back, I sold it. I don’t use MagSafe ammo anymore


I think this has a whole lot more to do with your choice of firearm. I've heard *nothing* but bad things about Taurus. It's cheap...and it's cheap.

I carry RBCD frangible rounds in my .380 because .380 just seems a little too small. If they give even a slight increase in performance than that's great. The comments about 15 seconds of oxygen are true, but if your solid slug doesn't hit anything important than they'll never stop. In theory, frangible rounds will hit more vital objects with a smaller fragment.

There is a bottom-line, though: if they worked the best then police and military would carry them. Why don't they? It's not like they can't afford it.


Oddly enough I've heard the same thing about Taurus as well, but the last 2-3 issues of "Gun Tests" (a almost BS-free consumer-reports styled gun magazine) has put Taurus revolvers *and* autos on their Our Pick list.

I'd wager that the police and the military have cost constraints as well. When you're buying 500 million rounds of ammunition, $0.001 per round savings matters. Even for police forces, training costs are real and police are as (if not more so) subject to the same general hubris about effectiveness than the rest of us.

grayskys wrote:
I am pretty sure the geniva convention only allows round nose non-expanding ammunition for the military.


Not true. It was the Hague Conventions, and the language involves "unnecessary suffering", not a prohibition on expanding ammunition.

The military's lack of adoption of hollowpoints has less to do with rules than it does with cost and function. Ball feeds easier and is likely cheaper to make. I'd also guess that your typical infantryman WANTS a little excess penetration to cope with his targets' field gear, body armour and any light barricades they may be in/under (thin walls, light vehicles, etc).

Furthermore, it's not like the military doesn't use explosive ammo or incindiery tracers; frankly I'd sooner take my chances with a jacketed hollowpoint wound than a bullet wound coupled with a burn from a phosphor tracer. Ow.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:17 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:16 am
Posts: 364
Location: Minneapolis, MN
I've experimented with Glaser and Magsafes, and I've come to my own conclusion that they are simply not reliable enough for defensive use - the companies' quality control is lacking.

I have not been able to dig up significant evidence that these rounds perform the way they are supposed to in real shootings. I don't know of any major police department or military agency which uses this type of ammo. This includes the Air Marshalls it was supposedly designed for.

Poor QC + Very Little Performance History + Nobody Seems to Use It = Erik isn't going to use it either.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:53 pm 
Junior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:37 pm
Posts: 12
Location: United States
If someone offers to GIVE you frangible ammo RUN! It has no place in the home defense society! Worthless.

Federal EFMJ ...........Great stuff though a tad expensive

_________________
Glock-20,22,23,27,29 and30
Beretta 96 Vertec Inox
Colt Combat Commander 70 series


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:38 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm
Posts: 1725
If you buy EFMJ from the streicher's (spelling) it is the same cost per box of 50 that hydra-shok is, about $16 a box of 50 for 9mm.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:56 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 666
Location: St Cloud
I might add to the Hague Convention that I believe someone told me we weren't actually a signer, so are not bound by it. Our SF and others do use hollowpoints. I haven't checked it out myself, though, so I could be wrong.

As for frangibles not going through walls, from what I've read they go through, and they'll cause damage on the other side or the wall, but they don't penetrate too well. Here's some additional information from a guy that shoots stuff. :D

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:12 pm 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:55 pm
Posts: 986
AGoodDay wrote:
As for frangibles not going through walls, from what I've read they go through, and they'll cause damage on the other side or the wall, but they don't penetrate too well. Here's some additional information from a guy that shoots stuff. :D
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm


Simply out of completeness, I'd like to see the ol' Box O Truth with drywall and then a wall stud, both the "fat" way and the "long" way. I think there's probably a good chance that any round fired in a residential setting isn't going to necessarily be travelling perpendicular to a wall, but is instead going to be at some angle to the wall and may strike/deflect off of wall studs.

It'd also be interesting to add other potential (though less likely) obstacles -- iron pipe, copper pipe, sheet metal -- that one might find in a wall. Not that any of those things is going to do much to stop the bullet, but because I kind of hate loose ends.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:15 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 666
Location: St Cloud
mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
As for frangibles not going through walls, from what I've read they go through, and they'll cause damage on the other side or the wall, but they don't penetrate too well. Here's some additional information from a guy that shoots stuff. :D
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm


Simply out of completeness, I'd like to see the ol' Box O Truth with drywall and then a wall stud, both the "fat" way and the "long" way. I think there's probably a good chance that any round fired in a residential setting isn't going to necessarily be travelling perpendicular to a wall, but is instead going to be at some angle to the wall and may strike/deflect off of wall studs.

It'd also be interesting to add other potential (though less likely) obstacles -- iron pipe, copper pipe, sheet metal -- that one might find in a wall. Not that any of those things is going to do much to stop the bullet, but because I kind of hate loose ends.


I agree, I've been wanting to see that myself. Sounds like fun. Maybe I'll send a request. :D


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:33 pm 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:55 pm
Posts: 986
AGoodDay wrote:
mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
I agree, I've been wanting to see that myself. Sounds like fun. Maybe I'll send a request. :D


What I want to know is where we can do this ourselves!!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:27 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 666
Location: St Cloud
mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
I agree, I've been wanting to see that myself. Sounds like fun. Maybe I'll send a request. :D


What I want to know is where we can do this ourselves!!


You find the answer to that and I will seriously consider paying you a finders fee. hehe. I'd love to do this. I used to do some backyard ballistics (read to say "shooting random stuff") on old farmland that I used to hunt. They put their large junk in the woods in piles, so we found a whole bunch of stuff to shoot. I found out, for example, what a .22 vs. 00 buckshot vs. #6 birdshot will do to a car door. (BTW, if you want to shoot someone through a car door, 00 buck is definitely better than a .22 or birdshot. :roll: :lol: ) How fast I can shoot a hubcap swinging on a rope with a .22 accurately, and other completely useless points of stupid knowledge. It was fun. We just wished we could safely shoot some of the other stuff in the pile without potentially killing ourselves. Some of that stuff was pretty solid. We wanted to see if we could punch holes in them, but were just a tad scared of a richochet.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:15 pm 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:55 pm
Posts: 986
AGoodDay wrote:
You find the answer to that and I will seriously consider paying you a finders fee. hehe. I'd love to do this. I used to do some backyard ballistics (read to say "shooting random stuff") on old farmland that I used to hunt. They put their large junk in the woods in piles, so we found a whole bunch of stuff to shoot. I found out, for example, what a .22 vs. 00 buckshot vs. #6 birdshot will do to a car door. (BTW, if you want to shoot someone through a car door, 00 buck is definitely better than a .22 or birdshot. :roll: :lol: ) How fast I can shoot a hubcap swinging on a rope with a .22 accurately, and other completely useless points of stupid knowledge. It was fun. We just wished we could safely shoot some of the other stuff in the pile without potentially killing ourselves. Some of that stuff was pretty solid. We wanted to see if we could punch holes in them, but were just a tad scared of a richochet.


I considered picking up a few acres to do some pistol shooting until I looked at the prices of any rural acreage and it suddenly became a lot less desirable.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:48 pm 
Delicate Flower

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 3311
Location: St. Paul, MN.
mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
You find the answer to that and I will seriously consider paying you a finders fee. hehe. I'd love to do this. I used to do some backyard ballistics (read to say "shooting random stuff") on old farmland that I used to hunt. They put their large junk in the woods in piles, so we found a whole bunch of stuff to shoot. I found out, for example, what a .22 vs. 00 buckshot vs. #6 birdshot will do to a car door. (BTW, if you want to shoot someone through a car door, 00 buck is definitely better than a .22 or birdshot. :roll: :lol: ) How fast I can shoot a hubcap swinging on a rope with a .22 accurately, and other completely useless points of stupid knowledge. It was fun. We just wished we could safely shoot some of the other stuff in the pile without potentially killing ourselves. Some of that stuff was pretty solid. We wanted to see if we could punch holes in them, but were just a tad scared of a richochet.



I considered picking up a few acres to do some pistol shooting until I looked at the prices of any rural acreage and it suddenly became a lot less desirable.


I have a possible location about an hr from either downtown......I will check it out........

_________________
http://is.gd/37LKr


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:01 pm 
Journeyman Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 78
ttousi wrote:
I have a possible location about an hr from either downtown......I will check it out........


But, how far out do you have to go before it isn't against the law to shoot in the "backyard"?

_________________
Pakrat did not make my avatar.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:10 pm 
Delicate Flower

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 3311
Location: St. Paul, MN.
backinthegame wrote:
ttousi wrote:
I have a possible location about an hr from either downtown......I will check it out........


But, how far out do you have to go before it isn't against the law to shoot in the "backyard"?


south of hastings is pretty safe................Red wing area better. I can shoot there @ my brothers anytime, but to bring others or do a lot of shooting I need to check with him. Working on it. (read that as I keep forgetting to bring it up.) :roll:

_________________
http://is.gd/37LKr


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group