Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive
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Frangible Ammunition
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=71
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Author:  cobb [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
I think my spell/grammer checker was taking a nap on my last post!

Ya, maybe. But we all understand,,, understood,,,knew, I mean know what you ment,,mean. :lol:

Author:  JDR [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  MagSafe Ammo

I’ sure you are correct about the Taurus. I only have one Taurus left. It's a a featherweight 38 Special, for the wife. I have many others that work flawlessly. If I remember correctly the manufacture claimed that Air Marshals and swat teams use the rounds. Here is their link:

http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/magsafeammo/

Author:  mobocracy [ Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

mlomker wrote:
JDR wrote:
Sent it back to Taurus, they fixed it for no charge. Soon as I got it back, I sold it. I don’t use MagSafe ammo anymore


I think this has a whole lot more to do with your choice of firearm. I've heard *nothing* but bad things about Taurus. It's cheap...and it's cheap.

I carry RBCD frangible rounds in my .380 because .380 just seems a little too small. If they give even a slight increase in performance than that's great. The comments about 15 seconds of oxygen are true, but if your solid slug doesn't hit anything important than they'll never stop. In theory, frangible rounds will hit more vital objects with a smaller fragment.

There is a bottom-line, though: if they worked the best then police and military would carry them. Why don't they? It's not like they can't afford it.


Oddly enough I've heard the same thing about Taurus as well, but the last 2-3 issues of "Gun Tests" (a almost BS-free consumer-reports styled gun magazine) has put Taurus revolvers *and* autos on their Our Pick list.

I'd wager that the police and the military have cost constraints as well. When you're buying 500 million rounds of ammunition, $0.001 per round savings matters. Even for police forces, training costs are real and police are as (if not more so) subject to the same general hubris about effectiveness than the rest of us.

grayskys wrote:
I am pretty sure the geniva convention only allows round nose non-expanding ammunition for the military.


Not true. It was the Hague Conventions, and the language involves "unnecessary suffering", not a prohibition on expanding ammunition.

The military's lack of adoption of hollowpoints has less to do with rules than it does with cost and function. Ball feeds easier and is likely cheaper to make. I'd also guess that your typical infantryman WANTS a little excess penetration to cope with his targets' field gear, body armour and any light barricades they may be in/under (thin walls, light vehicles, etc).

Furthermore, it's not like the military doesn't use explosive ammo or incindiery tracers; frankly I'd sooner take my chances with a jacketed hollowpoint wound than a bullet wound coupled with a burn from a phosphor tracer. Ow.

Author:  Erik_Pakieser [ Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 

I've experimented with Glaser and Magsafes, and I've come to my own conclusion that they are simply not reliable enough for defensive use - the companies' quality control is lacking.

I have not been able to dig up significant evidence that these rounds perform the way they are supposed to in real shootings. I don't know of any major police department or military agency which uses this type of ammo. This includes the Air Marshalls it was supposedly designed for.

Poor QC + Very Little Performance History + Nobody Seems to Use It = Erik isn't going to use it either.

Author:  Trauma King [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

If someone offers to GIVE you frangible ammo RUN! It has no place in the home defense society! Worthless.

Federal EFMJ ...........Great stuff though a tad expensive

Author:  grayskys [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

If you buy EFMJ from the streicher's (spelling) it is the same cost per box of 50 that hydra-shok is, about $16 a box of 50 for 9mm.

Author:  AGoodDay [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

I might add to the Hague Convention that I believe someone told me we weren't actually a signer, so are not bound by it. Our SF and others do use hollowpoints. I haven't checked it out myself, though, so I could be wrong.

As for frangibles not going through walls, from what I've read they go through, and they'll cause damage on the other side or the wall, but they don't penetrate too well. Here's some additional information from a guy that shoots stuff. :D

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm

Author:  mobocracy [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

AGoodDay wrote:
As for frangibles not going through walls, from what I've read they go through, and they'll cause damage on the other side or the wall, but they don't penetrate too well. Here's some additional information from a guy that shoots stuff. :D
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm


Simply out of completeness, I'd like to see the ol' Box O Truth with drywall and then a wall stud, both the "fat" way and the "long" way. I think there's probably a good chance that any round fired in a residential setting isn't going to necessarily be travelling perpendicular to a wall, but is instead going to be at some angle to the wall and may strike/deflect off of wall studs.

It'd also be interesting to add other potential (though less likely) obstacles -- iron pipe, copper pipe, sheet metal -- that one might find in a wall. Not that any of those things is going to do much to stop the bullet, but because I kind of hate loose ends.

Author:  AGoodDay [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
As for frangibles not going through walls, from what I've read they go through, and they'll cause damage on the other side or the wall, but they don't penetrate too well. Here's some additional information from a guy that shoots stuff. :D
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm


Simply out of completeness, I'd like to see the ol' Box O Truth with drywall and then a wall stud, both the "fat" way and the "long" way. I think there's probably a good chance that any round fired in a residential setting isn't going to necessarily be travelling perpendicular to a wall, but is instead going to be at some angle to the wall and may strike/deflect off of wall studs.

It'd also be interesting to add other potential (though less likely) obstacles -- iron pipe, copper pipe, sheet metal -- that one might find in a wall. Not that any of those things is going to do much to stop the bullet, but because I kind of hate loose ends.


I agree, I've been wanting to see that myself. Sounds like fun. Maybe I'll send a request. :D

Author:  mobocracy [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 

AGoodDay wrote:
mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
I agree, I've been wanting to see that myself. Sounds like fun. Maybe I'll send a request. :D


What I want to know is where we can do this ourselves!!

Author:  AGoodDay [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
I agree, I've been wanting to see that myself. Sounds like fun. Maybe I'll send a request. :D


What I want to know is where we can do this ourselves!!


You find the answer to that and I will seriously consider paying you a finders fee. hehe. I'd love to do this. I used to do some backyard ballistics (read to say "shooting random stuff") on old farmland that I used to hunt. They put their large junk in the woods in piles, so we found a whole bunch of stuff to shoot. I found out, for example, what a .22 vs. 00 buckshot vs. #6 birdshot will do to a car door. (BTW, if you want to shoot someone through a car door, 00 buck is definitely better than a .22 or birdshot. :roll: :lol: ) How fast I can shoot a hubcap swinging on a rope with a .22 accurately, and other completely useless points of stupid knowledge. It was fun. We just wished we could safely shoot some of the other stuff in the pile without potentially killing ourselves. Some of that stuff was pretty solid. We wanted to see if we could punch holes in them, but were just a tad scared of a richochet.

Author:  mobocracy [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

AGoodDay wrote:
You find the answer to that and I will seriously consider paying you a finders fee. hehe. I'd love to do this. I used to do some backyard ballistics (read to say "shooting random stuff") on old farmland that I used to hunt. They put their large junk in the woods in piles, so we found a whole bunch of stuff to shoot. I found out, for example, what a .22 vs. 00 buckshot vs. #6 birdshot will do to a car door. (BTW, if you want to shoot someone through a car door, 00 buck is definitely better than a .22 or birdshot. :roll: :lol: ) How fast I can shoot a hubcap swinging on a rope with a .22 accurately, and other completely useless points of stupid knowledge. It was fun. We just wished we could safely shoot some of the other stuff in the pile without potentially killing ourselves. Some of that stuff was pretty solid. We wanted to see if we could punch holes in them, but were just a tad scared of a richochet.


I considered picking up a few acres to do some pistol shooting until I looked at the prices of any rural acreage and it suddenly became a lot less desirable.

Author:  ttousi [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:48 pm ]
Post subject: 

mobocracy wrote:
AGoodDay wrote:
You find the answer to that and I will seriously consider paying you a finders fee. hehe. I'd love to do this. I used to do some backyard ballistics (read to say "shooting random stuff") on old farmland that I used to hunt. They put their large junk in the woods in piles, so we found a whole bunch of stuff to shoot. I found out, for example, what a .22 vs. 00 buckshot vs. #6 birdshot will do to a car door. (BTW, if you want to shoot someone through a car door, 00 buck is definitely better than a .22 or birdshot. :roll: :lol: ) How fast I can shoot a hubcap swinging on a rope with a .22 accurately, and other completely useless points of stupid knowledge. It was fun. We just wished we could safely shoot some of the other stuff in the pile without potentially killing ourselves. Some of that stuff was pretty solid. We wanted to see if we could punch holes in them, but were just a tad scared of a richochet.



I considered picking up a few acres to do some pistol shooting until I looked at the prices of any rural acreage and it suddenly became a lot less desirable.


I have a possible location about an hr from either downtown......I will check it out........

Author:  backinthegame [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

ttousi wrote:
I have a possible location about an hr from either downtown......I will check it out........


But, how far out do you have to go before it isn't against the law to shoot in the "backyard"?

Author:  ttousi [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

backinthegame wrote:
ttousi wrote:
I have a possible location about an hr from either downtown......I will check it out........


But, how far out do you have to go before it isn't against the law to shoot in the "backyard"?


south of hastings is pretty safe................Red wing area better. I can shoot there @ my brothers anytime, but to bring others or do a lot of shooting I need to check with him. Working on it. (read that as I keep forgetting to bring it up.) :roll:

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