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 Ron Paul and 9/11 truthers (split: Palin running for Prez...) 
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 Post subject: Ron Paul and 9/11 truthers (split: Palin running for Prez...)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:52 am 
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kecker wrote:
... I think Romney is by far the most logical choice of ANY of the parties potential candidates.

Because the republicans won't let Ron Paul run? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:34 am 
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I don't understand the fascination with Ron Paul....and here is where I incite the hatred and flames of the Ronulans. While he has some good ideas, he's also an incredibly flawed candidate.

Even those aside, IMHO, anyone that reveals themselves as a 9/11 Truther automatically is not a serious candidate, because you're demonstrated you're completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident. Those are not the traits I want for someone sitting next to the big red button.

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:13 pm 
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kecker wrote:
... 9/11 Truther ... completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident.

You forgot the rational arguement that he "hates america." You know, since all '9/11 truthers' must hate america. I'm guessing we thank Karl Rove for coming up with that logical response to "reinvestigate 9/11"?


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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:28 pm 
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kecker wrote:
I don't understand the fascination with Ron Paul....and here is where I incite the hatred and flames of the Ronulans. While he has some good ideas, he's also an incredibly flawed candidate.

Even those aside, IMHO, anyone that reveals themselves as a 9/11 Truther automatically is not a serious candidate, because you're demonstrated you're completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident. Those are not the traits I want for someone sitting next to the big red button.


Bingo!!!...hand that man a prize!

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:31 pm 
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Pakrat wrote:
kecker wrote:
... 9/11 Truther ... completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident.

You forgot the rational arguement that he "hates america." You know, since all '9/11 truthers' must hate america. I'm guessing we thank Karl Rove for coming up with that logical response to "reinvestigate 9/11"?


I don't buy that argument

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:31 am 
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kecker wrote:
I don't understand the fascination with Ron Paul....and here is where I incite the hatred and flames of the Ronulans. While he has some good ideas, he's also an incredibly flawed candidate.

Even those aside, IMHO, anyone that reveals themselves as a 9/11 Truther automatically is not a serious candidate, because you're demonstrated you're completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident. Those are not the traits I want for someone sitting next to the big red button.


Yup. To all of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:10 am 
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kecker wrote:
Pakrat wrote:
kecker wrote:
... 9/11 Truther ... completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident.

You forgot the rational arguement that he "hates america." You know, since all '9/11 truthers' must hate america. I'm guessing we thank Karl Rove for coming up with that logical response to "reinvestigate 9/11"?

I don't buy that argument

You can't choose whether or not to purchase that logical and rational argument, when that's the backbone of discrediting '9/11 truthers'.
I mean there aren't really any other arguments...


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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:07 am 
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Pakrat wrote:
kecker wrote:
Pakrat wrote:
kecker wrote:
... 9/11 Truther ... completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident.

You forgot the rational arguement that he "hates america." You know, since all '9/11 truthers' must hate america. I'm guessing we thank Karl Rove for coming up with that logical response to "reinvestigate 9/11"?

I don't buy that argument

You can't choose whether or not to purchase that logical and rational argument, when that's the backbone of discrediting '9/11 truthers'.
I mean there aren't really any other arguments...


9/11 truthers discredit themselves. Anybody who honestly believes the towers came down as part of a controlled demolition is to big of an idiot to talk to. Most of the other conspiracy theories are just as BS.

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:49 pm 
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I'm going to take a breath... I can tell this is a heated subject. I'll count to 9 and cool off.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Oops, a 110 story building fell. I'll start again.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Oops another one hundred and ten story building DISAPPEARED.
1 2 3 4 5 6 .5 Damn, a 47 story building completely gone.

I don't give a shit if it's a controlled demo or not. There is no reason for 3 buildings to completely disintegrate in under 10 seconds each.

And no, no 9/11 truther discredits themselves. They just get called idiots and the things that make one go 'hmmm' get called BS.

Added:
If the previous comments had been directed at me instead of Ron Paul or '9/11 truthers', obviously there would have been some punishments here on the forum. Not one of my posts insulted anyone in that manor. Most people looking for the truth whether conspiracy-based or not do not resort to childish name calling.


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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:54 pm 
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Seriously? Seriously?

Is there really anyone on the planet who didn't see the planes hit? Does anyone really believe that explosive charges could be smuggled in and placed in downtown friggin' NYC in three buildings where thousands and thousand of people work, without anyone noticing?


Is there really anyone who still thinks the 19 dead hijackers and the captured-in-MN twentieth are a figment of someone's imagination?

Th eproblem with conspiracy theories, in general, is the notion that large numbers of people can coordinate in perfect secrecy and maintain that secrecy for life. People just don't work that way.

Anyone who buys that crap is unelectable, and it's not an attack to say so. It's the hard truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:42 am 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
Seriously? Seriously?

Is there really anyone on the planet who didn't see the planes hit? Does anyone really believe that explosive charges could be smuggled in and placed in downtown friggin' NYC in three buildings where thousands and thousand of people work, without anyone noticing?

Is there really anyone who still thinks the 19 dead hijackers and the captured-in-MN twentieth are a figment of someone's imagination?

Th eproblem with conspiracy theories, in general, is the notion that large numbers of people can coordinate in perfect secrecy and maintain that secrecy for life. People just don't work that way.

Anyone who buys that crap is unelectable, and it's not an attack to say so. It's the hard truth.


It would actually be quite easy to place significant charges throughout a building like the towers and no one would notice. Simply place them in computer cases without a keyboard and plug everything in, perhaps even use a battery to light the LEDs. You could use the network cables to control detonation if you had access to the wiring closets. It could be done, on an incremental basis without anyone paying attention. 4 or 5 PC cases could easily hold a hundred lbs of C4 and the number of offices in the building would disguise the appearance of dozens of them.

All of that said, when you want something to work, KISS Keep It Simple, Stupid. A plane loaded with fuel impacting the structure will explode and burn very at an extremely high temperature disrupting the integrity of the iron exoskeleton of the building causing it to peel apart from the top down.
Oh, that’s right, that’s what I saw happen!

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:30 am 
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Selurcspi wrote:
It would actually be quite easy to place significant charges throughout a building like the towers and no one would notice. Simply place them in computer cases without a keyboard and plug everything in, perhaps even use a battery to light the LEDs. You could use the network cables to control detonation if you had access to the wiring closets. It could be done, on an incremental basis without anyone paying attention. 4 or 5 PC cases could easily hold a hundred lbs of C4 and the number of offices in the building would disguise the appearance of dozens of them.

Have you ever actually cut steel with C-4? I have. I spent three years active diuy and ten years National Guard, and between the two probably had 30 trips to the demo range. That by no means makes me an expert, but I have cut steel with C-4, and I have failed to cut steel with C-4, and I thus have some practical experience.

It doesn't take much C-4 to cut steel, but it has to be very carefully placed. That is, it needs to be in direct contact with the steel. Explosives take the route of least resistance. A PC case full of explosives will blow out the window, it won't damage the support beams.

OTOH, heat will detemper steel. Fill a building with a couple of thousand gallons of jet fuel and set it alight, and it will weaken the steel significantly.

There's one critical fact that convinces me that the official story is correct. The second tower hit fell first. The north tower was hit at 8:45, the fires started, and the sprinkler systems went into full gear to keep the temperatures down. The south tower was hit at 9:03 and the sprinkler systems were overloaded. The south tower, into which the thousands of gallons of water was not dumped, dropped at 10:05. The north tower dropped at 10:28. The north tower, which was hit first, stood for 103 minutes. The south tower, which was hit second, stood for 62 minutes.

It was all about heat - how long it took the fires to remove the temper from the steel.

Building 7 wasn't reported on fire until 4:10 PM, five-and-a-half hours after the north tower fell. Building 7 collapsed at 5:20. Again, it had been burning for more than an hour, and I'll guarantee to you that the sprinkler systems were off-line. It fell for the same reason the other towers did - uncontrolled fire. If there is a mystery around it, it's what was burning in building 7, and what started the fire. But it's not much of a mystery, there's plenty of flammable stuff in a modern office building, and given the mess that the collapse of the towers caused. How many coffee pots were left plugged in, when the building was evacuated?

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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul and 9/11 truthers (split: Palin running for Prez...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:17 am 
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Conspiracy theories are rooted in basic human nature. A significant event (i.e. 9/11, the moon landing, JFK assasination, etc.) MUST have a significant explanation. To some, it can't be as simple as 19 hijackers with a well thought-out plan. Some people just don't want to believe the (boring) truth. It's in our nature to WANT to believe that there is an extraordinary explanation for such an extraordinary event.

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 Post subject: Re: Palin running for Prez, or........
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:03 am 
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kecker wrote:
I don't understand the fascination with Ron Paul....and here is where I incite the hatred and flames of the Ronulans. While he has some good ideas, he's also an incredibly flawed candidate.

Even those aside, IMHO, anyone that reveals themselves as a 9/11 Truther automatically is not a serious candidate, because you're demonstrated you're completely incapable of being rational and logical about an incident. Those are not the traits I want for someone sitting next to the big red button.


Huh? when did Paul become a truther?

Last I heard he wasn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGyhlNY0y1k


I would like to know if he has said otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Ron Paul and 9/11 truthers (split: Palin running for Prez...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:06 am 
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sheepdog wrote:
Conspiracy theories are rooted in basic human nature. A significant event (i.e. 9/11, the moon landing, JFK assasination, etc.) MUST have a significant explanation. To some, it can't be as simple as 19 hijackers with a well thought-out plan. Some people just don't want to believe the (boring) truth. It's in our nature to WANT to believe that there is an extraordinary explanation for such an extraordinary event.



I believe 19 hijackers flying 3 of 4 planes into buildings IS extraordinary. And Evil.

No other explanation is necessary.

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