|
|
It is currently Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:30 pm
|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
I told you this would happen
Author |
Message |
Selurcspi
|
Post subject: I told you this would happen Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:57 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
|
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109973'Obama to make illegals eligible for health care' Upcoming immigration bill seen as 'backdoor' to bring millions into plan
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
|
|
|
|
|
Traveler
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:30 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm Posts: 845 Location: Saint Paul
|
I see no problem in requiring all illegal aliens to return to their country of record and to apply for re-entry to the United States by going to their local United States embassy, filling out all of the required paperwork, paying all of the required fees, and then waiting for their interview as their files come up in rotation. That would be, indeed, true immigration reform.
I would also like to see the Legislative Branch of the United States government enact law that prohibits granting United States citizenship solely on the criteria of a person being born on United States soil. If one of the parents is a United States citizen, then the child would have the option of seeking United States citizenship. If neither parent is a United States citizen, the child does not have the option of seeking United States citizenship.
All of the above makes wonderful sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
BigBlue
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:18 pm |
|
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:55 am Posts: 151
|
Traveler wrote: I see no problem in requiring all illegal aliens to return to their country of record and to apply for re-entry to the United States by going to their local United States embassy, filling out all of the required paperwork, paying all of the required fees, and then waiting for their interview as their files come up in rotation. That would be, indeed, true immigration reform.
I would also like to see the Legislative Branch of the United States government enact law that prohibits granting United States citizenship solely on the criteria of a person being born on United States soil. If one of the parents is a United States citizen, then the child would have the option of seeking United States citizenship. If neither parent is a United States citizen, the child does not have the option of seeking United States citizenship.
All of the above makes wonderful sense to me. Right on. Why is this logical and fair process not accepted and endorsed by more people? How can people even argue with this view? BB
|
|
|
|
|
ma-gaga
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:02 pm |
|
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:33 pm Posts: 33 Location: Minneapolis
|
Quote: How can people even argue with this view? I've been told that without illegals, the economy of California would collapse. Nobody (legal) is willing to do the work that "they" are for the price they are paid. It's a subjective and highly speculative comment, and don't ask for a link, because I don't have one, but the states adjacent to Mexico have access to very cheap labor that are sustaining them. I agree with you. Up here it's pretty easy to postulate solutions to the illegal immigrant problem. However, there are some working issues with California/Texas that those legislatures are not really willing to tackle.
_________________ snappy sig line coming soon
|
|
|
|
|
princewally
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:30 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
|
ma-gaga wrote: Nobody (legal) is willing to do the work that "they" are for the price they are paid.
A couple of years ago, there was a "strike" on Cinco de Mayo to "prove" this. The end result was that high school and college students made a bunch of money mowing lawns. As a side note, the economy of Cali is already collapsing. Taking out a significant percentage of the welfare-state recipients isn't going to speed the decline.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
|
|
|
|
|
Traveler
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:15 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm Posts: 845 Location: Saint Paul
|
ma-gaga wrote: Quote: How can people even argue with this view? I've been told that without illegals, the economy of California would collapse. Nobody (legal) is willing to do the work that "they" are for the price they are paid. It's a subjective and highly speculative comment, and don't ask for a link, because I don't have one, but the states adjacent to Mexico have access to very cheap labor that are sustaining them. I agree with you. Up here it's pretty easy to postulate solutions to the illegal immigrant problem. However, there are some working issues with California/Texas that those legislatures are not really willing to tackle. I fail to grasp the point you are trying to make. If there are jobs that "citizens" do not want to do, then employers could avail of the visa system to bring in the number of "non-citizens" to do the job. That process is already being done to bring in Registered Nurses, MD's, teachers, etc. A visa system would help "non-citizens" to obtain those jobs without getting their trouser legs, or their backs for that matter, wet by illegally entering the country by crossing the Rio Grande river. We would know who they are, where they came from, and when they are scheduled to leave the country. I believe there are very few who oppose immigration on it's face. Immigration is wonderful, but only if it is controlled. A country without borders is no country at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Pakrat
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:07 am |
|
Forum Moderator/<br>AV Geek |
|
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:56 am Posts: 2422 Location: Hopkins, MN
|
princewally wrote: A couple of years ago, there was a "strike" on Cinco de Mayo to "prove" this. The end result was that high school and college students made a bunch of money mowing lawns. I am ignorant on the subject and do not have a strong opinion either way. A one day strike proves nothing either way. It may open eyes to how much/little Mexican and/or illegal immigrants actually do. The employers are probably the ones that had to panic to fill the spots, but that happens. They are called sick days. So, customers stay blind to the issue. The way that illegals are portrayed on tv, hangin' out at home depots, not all of them would skip a day. So there has to be at least one guy to do the work. Less competition.
|
|
|
|
|
Scott Hughes
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:22 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm Posts: 1525 Location: Isanti, MN
|
ma-gaga wrote: I've been told that without illegals, the economy of California would collapse. Nobody (legal) is willing to do the work that "they" are for the price they are paid. I have a real problem with this. We pay ever increasing taxes in support of various types of welfare for legals and illegals; all the while we are subject hearing the argument that Americans won’t do certain types of work. Let me offer the proposal that we not allow ANY welfare to ANY illegals, and significantly reduce the welfare we pay out to able bodied legals (I’m thinking the number 0). Hunger is probably a motivator to get one working I would also strongly suggest that any illegals that feel they are in need of “health care” seek that care in their country of origin, rather than compel me to pay for it, for them
_________________ “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -
WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM
|
|
|
|
|
gunflint
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:53 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:00 am Posts: 1094 Location: Duluth
|
Let's not forget the huge voting potential that the illegals pose for the Democrats. If the dems can figure out a way (like amnesty) to get them to the polls. It's over for the Republicans.
_________________ "I wish it to be remembered that I was the last man of my tribe to surrender my rifle" Sitting Bull
|
|
|
|
|
JGalt
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:12 am |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:47 pm Posts: 174 Location: Wouldn't you like to know...
|
Traveler wrote: I see no problem in requiring all illegal aliens to return to their country of record and to apply for re-entry to the United States by going to their local United States embassy, filling out all of the required paperwork, paying all of the required fees, and then waiting for their interview as their files come up in rotation. That would be, indeed, true immigration reform.
I would also like to see the Legislative Branch of the United States government enact law that prohibits granting United States citizenship solely on the criteria of a person being born on United States soil. If one of the parents is a United States citizen, then the child would have the option of seeking United States citizenship. If neither parent is a United States citizen, the child does not have the option of seeking United States citizenship.
All of the above makes wonderful sense to me. While I wholeheartedly agree with your desire, it will require a Constitutional Amendment to make that change. The only thing stopping that from happening is Congress & the President, as I believe it would be no problem to get the required number of states to ratify it...
_________________ "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged
|
|
|
|
|
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:52 am |
|
The Man |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
It's pretty clear that illegals are a net financial plus for the economy; it's not only the CATO study that's showed that, collectively, they pay more in taxes than they consume in services.
But that doesn't mean that we have to, as a society, tolerate illegals' presence here. That's a policy decision that we, the people, have a right to make through our elected representatives, as is the question of whether or not they should get health care benefits that they don't pay for.
I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with, if we were to have a national health care system, including or excluding illegals. I do think it's wrong for the Obama administration to say that they'd be excluded from it without showing their homework -- what mechanism, precisely, would they use to exclude illegals, as they claim that their plan would? -- and it is deceptive to simply point to a paragraph title in a bill as the mechanism.
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:37 am |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
The problem is going to be that most of the health care for illegals will be emergent stuff, ie, woman in labor, heart attack, personal injury ect. There is no way they are going to be turned down. If anything the amnesty might be sped up to cover the situation. Maybe the hospital could issue an amnesty card right at admission. (Register to vote at the same time? ) Hospitals are not going to turn away emergency cases, and doctors are going to want to get paid. The whole point of universal care is that is be universal. As long as we subsidize the insurance industry, and play to the righteous right, it'll be just more high priced paperwork.
|
|
|
|
|
Traveler
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:00 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm Posts: 845 Location: Saint Paul
|
Dick Unger wrote: The whole point of universal care is that is be universal. Which is exactly why, according to the latest Rasmussen poll, fifty-four percent of Americans would rather have no health care reform at all, rather than the bills that are currently being considered in Congress. The poll also shows that, while eighty percent of Republicans oppose the bill, a surprising forty percent of Democrats are opposed as well. Universal health care is simply government controlled and government apportioned health care. For illegal aliens who avail of emergency room treatment, perhaps ICE could outfit their buses with IV stands and tiered cots so that patients could be stabilized on their ride back to Tijuana or Juarez hospitals.
|
|
|
|
|
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:08 pm |
|
The Man |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
Dick Unger wrote: The problem is going to be that most of the health care for illegals will be emergent stuff, ie, woman in labor, heart attack, personal injury ect. There is no way they are going to be turned down. If anything the amnesty might be sped up to cover the situation. Maybe the hospital could issue an amnesty card right at admission. (Register to vote at the same time? ) Hospitals are not going to turn away emergency cases, and doctors are going to want to get paid. The whole point of universal care is that is be universal. As long as we subsidize the insurance industry, and play to the righteous right, it'll be just more high priced paperwork. Sure. But there's other ways to reduce the subsidy to the insurance industry -- allowing health insurance sales across state lines to increase competition, for example, preferably combined with some gazillionaire starting up a low-profit technically no-profit competitor. I think that, as bad as the Obamacare "public option" would be -- and it would -- simply adding a requirement that people buy insurance would do little more than increasing insurance company profits, and that's the way that this is shaping up.
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Re: I told you this would happen Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:08 am |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
There's no question that whatever may pass will be inadequate, the insurance and medical lobbys are still too strong. But at least then we'd have something to improve.
The problem is that the right wing wants NOTHING. No matter what, they are not going to support anything. Instead, they'll misrepresent and riddicule and deny. If the present system continues, it will bring down the economy in a few years. Most of the "people" still don't get that this is a crisis bigger than anthing we've seen.
Because of the irrational opposition to everything, I'll just hold my nose and be happy for anything. The Obama administation will do the same. Too bad.
I know lots of you "disagree", becdause YOU currently have health care. That'll change. And yeah, the waiting rooms will get more crowded, because of the medical lobbys.
It is a a fiscally "conservative" position to work the numbers and evaluate the lack of effectiveness of what we still call "private enterprise", and make changes.
|
|
|
|
|
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 78 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|
|
|