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gyrfalcon
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Post subject: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:59 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm Posts: 373
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I shipped out a Smith and Wesson a pistol that had the receiver crack for repairs. It was using factory ammunition, and the crack appeared to be caused by recoil stressing a defect in the frame.
So after a few months they called me and left a message that they need an FFL dealer to ship it back to. According to the customer service representative, Minnesota state law prohibits shipping the firearm back to me.
From what I understood firearms manufactures could ship firearms back to the person who sent it to them in for repairs. In fact Ruger has done this for me in the last few years.
I'm not too keen on paying an FFL dealer money to transfer this gun back to me. Any advice?
_________________
In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.
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DeanC
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:10 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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Yeah that sounds odd.
I seem to recall people even getting replacement guns shipped right to them. I think the Mfg destroyed the old gun and used the same serial number on the replacement.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:18 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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Makes absolutely no sense. I just got my Smith pistol back a few weeks ago after sending it. No FFL needed anywhere.
Call them at 800-331-0852, ext 2904. It's how I tracked my order.
-Mark
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reaver3
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:46 pm |
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Activist Extraordinaire |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 pm Posts: 546 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
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That doesn't sound right. I sent a Kel-Tec to a FFL gunsmith in Texas for some custom work when I was still living in Eagan, and he shipped it right back by UPS next day air. No problems whatsovever. I've never heard of such a state requirement in MN.
_________________ Respectfully,
Doug
"Some Things Are Worth Fighting For"
Judas Priest
Last edited by reaver3 on Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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onebohemian
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:28 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:52 pm Posts: 407 Location: Northern Burbs
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DeanC wrote: Yeah that sounds odd.
I seem to recall people even getting replacement guns shipped right to them. I think the Mfg destroyed the old gun and used the same serial number on the replacement. That was my M&P15T. S&W destroyed the old lower because it was so out of spec and then shipped directly to me my new rifle with the old upper and new lower. The new lower, however, had a brand new serial number. They told me they don't put the old serial numbers back on the replaced guns. I've heard of that happening from other manufactureres before though too. There's a federal law that allows a manufacturer to ship back to original owner. I'm not aware of MN having changed the rules in the interim. Call S&W back and ask for a MN state statute number. When they can't reference a source, ask they ship directly back to you as they have done in the past and know that they can do still today. I think you just got someone in shipping/repair that doesn't understand the law or S&W's own policies.
_________________ Mark
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joelr
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:32 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Almost certainly the case.
_________________ Just a guy.
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onebohemian
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:42 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:52 pm Posts: 407 Location: Northern Burbs
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I think it's 18 U.S.C. sec. 922(a)(2)(A) that provides the exception. The text follows. I have to run and do something else quick, but will try to devote a little more research time to this later in case there is more than just sec. 922, unless someone else chimes in first.
18 U.S.C. sec 922:
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or
(B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce;
(2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that—
(A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; . . . .
_________________ Mark
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gyrfalcon
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:14 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm Posts: 373
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onebohemian wrote: all S&W back and ask for a MN state statute number. When they can't reference a source, ask they ship directly back to you as they have done in the past and know that they can do still today. I think you just got someone in shipping/repair that doesn't understand the law or S&W's own policies. Thanks, I actually did that but they had left for today... Looks like I'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out exactly what's happening.
_________________
In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.
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gyrfalcon
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:14 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm Posts: 373
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According to the S&W representative I talked to today; he stated that the ATF has a list of States where an FFL transfer is required when a receiver/serial number is changed out. Minnesota is on this list for whatever reason.
He wasn't exactly forthcoming when I asked what sort of publication or notice this list was in, and if I could get a copy.
_________________
In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.
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340PD
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:36 am |
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Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:02 pm Posts: 188 Location: Saint Paul
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That seems odd since ownership is not changing that they would need to send the gun back to a FFL. I guess the only repair experience I've had I went through the dealer since it was under warranty. I had purchased a Taurus PT-145 .45 ACP from Sportsmen's Warehouse. That model had a particular defect which would cause part of the polymer at the very top of the backstrap to crack and break off in small pieces. I went to Sportsmen's Warehouse and they took the gun and gave me a receipt. A few weeks later I got a call that my gun was back. I went and picked it up. I wasn't charged for anything. The repair and shipping both ways were taken care of.
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MTinMN
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:31 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:14 pm Posts: 84
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When my P-11 had to go back to Kel-Tec for repair, they shipped it back directly to me without any problems.
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gyrfalcon
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:00 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm Posts: 373
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MTinMN wrote: When my P-11 had to go back to Kel-Tec for repair, they shipped it back directly to me without any problems. How long ago was this, and did they replace the receiver? Personally I'll let the weapon sit at S&W, contact the ATF, or anything else to get this changed if it's not actually legal or an added stipulation S&W is enacting. Minnesota State Statue 624.7132 seems to allow this. Subd. 12.Exclusions. Except as otherwise provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1f, this section shall not apply to transfers of antique firearms as curiosities or for their historical significance or value, transfers to or between federally licensed firearms dealers, transfers by order of court, involuntary transfers, transfers at death or the following transfers:... (3) the delivery of a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon to a person for the purpose of repair, reconditioning or remodeling;
_________________
In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.
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reaver3
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:29 pm |
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Activist Extraordinaire |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 pm Posts: 546 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
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Gyrfalcon,
From your last response, it sounds like they are providing you with a completely different receiver. Is that the case?
_________________ Respectfully,
Doug
"Some Things Are Worth Fighting For"
Judas Priest
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gyrfalcon
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:40 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm Posts: 373
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reaver3 wrote: Gyrfalcon,
From your last response, it sounds like they are providing you with a completely different receiver. Is that the case? Yes it is. Federal law: 18 USC Sec. 922 allows manufactures to ship replacement firearms without an FFL to the original owner. The S&W representative agreed with that. According to them or the ATF list, they're not allowed to do it for Minnesota citizens. I would like to know what law prohibits it.
_________________
In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.
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Q_Continuum
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Post subject: Re: Firearm Repair Shipping Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:47 pm |
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Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:43 am Posts: 371 Location: Anoka, MN
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gyrfalcon wrote: reaver3 wrote: Gyrfalcon,
From your last response, it sounds like they are providing you with a completely different receiver. Is that the case? Yes it is. Federal law: 18 USC Sec. 922 allows manufactures to ship replacement firearms without an FFL to the original owner. The S&W representative agreed with that. According to them or the ATF list, they're not allowed to do it for Minnesota citizens. I would like to know what law prohibits it. Yeah, keep asking what document that is - just be honest, you're curious where the ATF is getting the idea that Minnesota residents can't receive their own firearms back directly, since Federal law allows it, and Minnesota law allows it - so you'd like to know the document so you can ask the ATF about it.
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