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URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate
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kimberman
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Post subject: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:04 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Subject: GOA ALERT: Nat'l. Carry Vote Monday!!; More On NRA Against Sotomayor Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 08:08:59 -0700 Vote on Right to Carry Coming Soon -- Please urge your Senators to vote YES!
Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.orgFriday, July 17, 2009 A vote to protect your right to travel out-of-state with a firearm could come to a vote next week -- even as early as Monday! Senators John Thune and David Vitter are the sponsors of S. 845 -- a bill that will establish concealed carry reciprocity amongst the several states. Senators Thune and Vitter offered the bill as an amendment (#1618) to the Department of Defense authorization bill (H.R. 2647).This provision will use the constitutional authority allowing Congress to enforce "full faith and credit" across the country, so that each state respects the "public acts, records, and judicial proceedings" of every other state (Article IV). The benefit of the Thune/Vitter legislation is that -- unlike other, competing measures -- it would protect the right of any U.S. citizen to carry out of state (regardless of whether he possesses a permit), as long as he is authorized to carry in his home state. This is important because of states like Vermont and Alaska, where residents can carry concealed without prior approval or permission from the state... in other words, without a permit! ACTION: Please urge your Senators to vote YES on the Thune/Vitter concealed carry reciprocity amendment that will be offered to the Department of Defense authorization bill and NO on any modifying amendments. This vote could come as early as Monday, so please act on this right away! You can use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the pre-written e-mail message below.
----- Pre-written letter ----- Dear Senator: Please support the Thune/Vitter amendment to the Department of Defense authorization bill. This amendment will protect the right of citizens to carry firearms outside of their home state without violating the rights of the other states. Thus, the reciprocity language masterfully protects the principle of federalism while also promoting Second Amendment rights. A person's right to defend himself and his family should not end at the border of his state. I urge you to vote for the Thune/Vitter concealed carry amendment (no. 1618) and to oppose any modifying actions that seek to alter or weaken their amendment. Sincerely, YOUR NAME
_________________ President of AACFI, GOCRA, CCRN, and A2A
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kimberman
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:06 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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This is a good test for SENATOR Al Franken.
Is he anti-gun or not. If he votes "no," he is the ENEMY.
_________________ President of AACFI, GOCRA, CCRN, and A2A
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joelr
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:04 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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kimberman wrote: This is a good test for SENATOR Al Franken.
Is he anti-gun or not. If he votes "no," he is the ENEMY. I think it's not going to be a shock to anybody how he votes, but I'd love it if I'm wrong.
_________________ Just a guy.
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singhcr
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:13 pm |
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Journeyman Member |
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:36 pm Posts: 67 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Given Franken's previous statements on gun control, I would be amazed if he voted in favor of this amendment.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:13 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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I'm torn here, guys. Somebody help me out (seriously).
From a 2A perspective, I want my senators voting yes. But the conservative in me wants them voting no, because I strongly believe in states' rights, which this would seem to erode.
-Mark
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tepin
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:26 am |
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 pm Posts: 1064 Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Protect the 2A and Constitution first, then work on states rights.
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Chunkychuck
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:28 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:37 am Posts: 25
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I guess the way I look at the amendment is that we want it handled as a 2nd amendment issue so that the states can't regulate away our right to keep and bear arms under their 10th amendment rights.
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gaygoalie
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:07 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:51 pm Posts: 372 Location: Lakeville
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This topic is kinda interesting to me.. I know some gun guys have been watching the gay marriage stuff, i.e. requiring a state to recognize it based on full faith and credit (recognize one marriage from one state, have to recognize all marriages from the state) and hoping it would apply to CCW permits, and I also know of gay groups watching this, thinking it could set a precedence for gay marriage certificate. If this passes, it would help me immediately with my CCW permit, but it could help lay groundwork if I do get hitched in the future I also know this probably made afew people jump back a bit, so I hope this doesn't get too uncivilized too quickly..
_________________ Certified MN Carry Permit instructor check http://www.mncarrytraining.com/ for info
My Homebrew journal http://brew.goalie.cx
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singhcr
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:04 pm |
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Journeyman Member |
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:36 pm Posts: 67 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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This doesn't have anything to do with state's rights. States don't have the right to infringe your rights, and with the "full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution applied correctly, states will have to accept CCW permits and marriage permits. We would not be discussing state's rights if it came to regulation of speech, so why arms or sexual preferences?
These kinds of issues confuse me, because to support one and deny the other (regardless of which side you are on) seems a bit hypocritical in my opinion. In either case: people have a right to do as they wish, be it carrying a gun or marrying a person of the same sex. You don't have to like or support it, but the government doesn't have the right to say what you do with your life.
I'm not gay- I personally find the practice of homosexuality to be against God's design, but since this is a free society, I am not going to force my views on others through legislation. I could say the same thing about gay rights activists who support gun control. There are limits to this, of course, but as long as you aren't directly harming someone else, I say people should be able to do whatever they want. This is liberalism in its real sense, not the statist attitude that I've witnessed from people who cry foul when the liberties they support are being squashed, but will rally to squash someone else's freedom because they don't agree with it the next day.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:29 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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You know what, I can live with those answers (all the responses), and as I think more about it, yup, this falls exactly into my viewpoint.
Less government regulation is good, and I think this leads to that overall.
-Mark
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gaygoalie
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:04 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:51 pm Posts: 372 Location: Lakeville
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singhcr wrote: TThese kinds of issues confuse me, because to support one and deny the other (regardless of which side you are on) seems a bit hypocritical in my opinion. In either case: people have a right to do as they wish, be it carrying a gun or marrying a person of the same sex. You don't have to like or support it, but the government doesn't have the right to say what you do with your life. That is one problem I find with so many issues. Both sides are so gung ho against restricting the other sides rights that they don't see it as a way that can help both people win more rights/freedoms/benefits.
_________________ Certified MN Carry Permit instructor check http://www.mncarrytraining.com/ for info
My Homebrew journal http://brew.goalie.cx
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:25 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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gaygoalie wrote: singhcr wrote: TThese kinds of issues confuse me, because to support one and deny the other (regardless of which side you are on) seems a bit hypocritical in my opinion. In either case: people have a right to do as they wish, be it carrying a gun or marrying a person of the same sex. You don't have to like or support it, but the government doesn't have the right to say what you do with your life. That is one problem I find with so many issues. Both sides are so gung ho against restricting the other sides rights that they don't see it as a way that can help both people win more rights/freedoms/benefits. +1000, to both the quote and your response
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bensdad
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:59 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 9:55 pm Posts: 598 Location: Dundas, Minnesota
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I keep saying this is the last time I'll jump in on the topic (this bill). Eventually I'll mean it. Passage of this bill will be followed by "noise" in the news about how some states have little or no training needed for a permit. This will be followed by clamouring for some "common sense" structure to the permitting process (to make things safer and consistent).
I'll meet you all back here in 5 years, when the permit to carry is issued federally. It will involve fingerprinting, a class with a standardized curriculum and course of fire, reference letters, significantly larger fee, no 30-day requirement (they'll issue your permit when they damn well please), open-carry will be banned outright, you'll only be able to carry the gun(s) listed on your permit, no church carry, no carry near booze, etc., etc., etc. This will also involve a massive new branch of the BATFE.
God, I hope I'm wrong. I've been called a nervous-pervous before. Then again, I've been right before (twice).
Simply put, this is the Fed. telling the states what they can/can't do. Color it however you like. Put a dress on it. It's still a pig. Anyone play chess? Recognize the gambit?
_________________ I say I'm cleaning guns... My wife says I'm petting them.
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gaygoalie
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:18 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:51 pm Posts: 372 Location: Lakeville
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bensdad wrote: I keep saying this is the last time I'll jump in on the topic (this bill). Eventually I'll mean it. Passage of this bill will be followed by "noise" in the news about how some states have little or no training needed for a permit. This will be followed by clamouring for some "common sense" structure to the permitting process (to make things safer and consistent). does anyone bring this up with drivers licenses? States aren't identical on that.. Same with marriage licenses.. some have a waiting period.. others require blood work.. If they really push for the "they aren't the same in every state" theres alot of push back that could be used on existing licenses that are recognized as being the same in multiple states.
_________________ Certified MN Carry Permit instructor check http://www.mncarrytraining.com/ for info
My Homebrew journal http://brew.goalie.cx
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bensdad
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Post subject: Re: URGENT, urgent -- CCW vote on Monday in Senate Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:38 pm |
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 9:55 pm Posts: 598 Location: Dundas, Minnesota
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gaygoalie wrote: bensdad wrote: I keep saying this is the last time I'll jump in on the topic (this bill). Eventually I'll mean it. Passage of this bill will be followed by "noise" in the news about how some states have little or no training needed for a permit. This will be followed by clamouring for some "common sense" structure to the permitting process (to make things safer and consistent). does anyone bring this up with drivers licenses? States aren't identical on that.. Same with marriage licenses.. some have a waiting period.. others require blood work.. If they really push for the "they aren't the same in every state" theres alot of push back that could be used on existing licenses that are recognized as being the same in multiple states. Yeah, cuz there's a huge "anti-driver's license" crowd trying to find a way to divide and conquer drivers. And that anti-marriage license movement has a huge following in the senate. Your examples are completely dissimilar to P to C. Look, I believe a huge segment of the 2A crowd is looking at this as a good thing (rose-colored glasses). I believe that by supporting this, we shoot ourselves in the foot (figuratively). Hey, stick this thread in your memory bank. Point it out in 5 years and say, "Look what an idiot Bensdad was! He thought the sky was falling!" I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. If, on the other hand, I'm right... I'm right. This is a Trojan horse. Supporting it is foolishness. Moths to the flame.
_________________ I say I'm cleaning guns... My wife says I'm petting them.
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