So what if I use my firearm in a posted location?
Author |
Message |
sheepdog
|
Post subject: So what if I use my firearm in a posted location? Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:23 am |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:25 pm Posts: 367 Location: Forest Lake, MN
|
I find myself constantly running scenarios through my head in an attempt to have at least some level of preparedness/awareness in situations where the use of a firearm is necessary.
So, let's just say I'm in a posted liquor store (in St. Anthony? ) and suddenly find myself cornered and in immediate fear of my life with no other option but to take out the person that I believe is about to kill me. What are the legal ramifications of using a firearm in a "no guns allowed" establishment? Do I suddenly become the bad guy simply because of a stupid sign?
_________________ Pork Chop Sandwiches!
|
|
|
|
|
Selurcspi
|
Post subject: Re: So what if I use my firearm in a posted location? Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:36 am |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
|
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
|
|
|
|
|
joelr
|
Post subject: Re: So what if I use my firearm in a posted location? Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:56 am |
|
The Man |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
|
sheepdog wrote: I find myself constantly running scenarios through my head in an attempt to have at least some level of preparedness/awareness in situations where the use of a firearm is necessary. So, let's just say I'm in a posted liquor store (in St. Anthony? ) and suddenly find myself cornered and in immediate fear of my life with no other option but to take out the person that I believe is about to kill me. What are the legal ramifications of using a firearm in a "no guns allowed" establishment? Do I suddenly become the bad guy simply because of a stupid sign? Nah. There's not -- and vanishingly unlikely to be -- any case law on it, and IANAL, but, well, nah.
_________________ Just a guy.
|
|
|
|
|
Red XIII
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:04 pm |
|
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:09 am Posts: 352 Location: Minnesota
|
One thing I think (and IANAL), is that it may give civil suits against you an edge...
On another tangent, not sure if that would change the law/peoples' minds for better or worse. Places may take signs down, or they could change the law to make the signs legal in and of themselves.
Although if it's me or them...I don't care where I am, it's me.
Red
_________________ G19C, G20, S&W99C, Marlin .30-.30, AR-15, Winchester Chipmunk
|
|
|
|
|
sheepdog
|
Post subject: Re: So what if I use my firearm in a posted location? Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:37 pm |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:25 pm Posts: 367 Location: Forest Lake, MN
|
joelr wrote: Nah. There's not -- and vanishingly unlikely to be -- any case law on it, and IANAL, but, well, nah.
Good to know. Still makes me beg the question: What's the point of those signs? I mean, really?
I found it very interesting to learn during my class that entering a posted establishment while carrying does not make you an instant felon as some, maybe most, people might believe at first. They just mean that if you ARE spotted carrying, they can ask you to comply and if you don't, LEO's come and slap you on the wrist and it doesn't even result in forfeiture of your firearm. So I pretty much ignore those signs...
With that said, what are posted shop owners really trying to accomplish? A political statement? Many may have the false belief that all people, sheep and wolves alike, will dutifully obey. Obviously that's not the case. So really, what's the point?
And I think you're right Red - in this particular scenario, prosecution might have an edge in the event of a civil trial.
_________________ Pork Chop Sandwiches!
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:56 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
If you have the right to defend yourself, you have the right to defend yourself regardless of the sign. If not you are in trouble for using your gun against somebody. The signs won't matter to anybody in the case of an actual use of a gun.
I think we have signs because some legislators wanted the law to give property owners the right to put up signs. Sort of a testiment to illogical thinking, because the signs don't really have any effect on anybody who would misbehave with a gun.
The signs apparently do unsettle customers who sometimes think there must be a gun problem on the premises and that management believes a sign will help solve it. And they are apparently a reminder to folks who have not gotten a carry permit to sign up to get one. Neither of these reasons are likely to have been an important motivation for the people who bought the signs, I think.
Originally some signs were quickly put up by Co-ops and other businesses who support the old DFL programs for gun control. I think there was an email to DFL CEO's. And some places put up signs because other businesses did so. The sign companies sent out advertising to businesses recommending, well, buying signs.
Most posters have figured things out and removed the signs from their premises. But not all.
|
|
|
|
|
Andrew Rothman
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:24 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
|
|
|
|
|
A Brit in MN
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:34 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:32 pm Posts: 1803 Location: Woodbury
|
|
|
|
|
Srigs
|
Post subject: Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:04 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am Posts: 3752 Location: East Suburbs
|
Good question. Like everyone said, no real issue except for shock when you protect yourself instead of hiding under a chair!
_________________ Srigs
Side Guard Holsters
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton
|
|
|
|
|
Tick Slayer
|
Post subject: Re: So what if I use my firearm in a posted location? Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:09 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 1263 Location: MN
|
sheepdog wrote: <snip>What's the point of those signs? I mean, really?
I found it very interesting to learn during my class that entering a posted establishment while carrying does not make you an instant felon as some, maybe most, people might believe at first.<snip>
With that said, what are posted shop owners really trying to accomplish? <snip>
Well, human nature being what it is, and the number of posting entities being what it is, I think it's safe to say there are a number of reasons. I suspect many people choose to post because they expect others to honor the signs either out of traditional Minnesotan manners or ignorance of the law. Probably a fair number who post think a posting has the force of law.
_________________
Image courtesy of Right Wing Swag
|
|
|
|
|
|
Page 1 of 1
|
[ 10 posts ] |
|
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|