It’s been awhile since I last posted here, but since I thought yesterday’s experience was worth writing down, why not post it online for someone else to peruse? I thought it might make for a good discussion thread. Sorry in advance for the length.
I’ll start at the beginning of my day. Actually, I’ll start with the reasons why I carry, because they differ from what my perception is regarding the reasons most members here carry. I’m fully aware that a large portion of our community here is for CC only, so I won’t attempt to either explain or defend my choices, just state them. I don’t carry everyday, and I don’t carry
primarily for personal protection. I carry because I can, and because I feel just a little bit freer when I exercise my rights in these great United States of America.
I carry mainly only on weekends. I carry open 95% of the time. About the only place I CC is at church, and that is mainly because I did OC there once, and it happened to not be well received by a few sensitive souls. Fair enough, but that’s a conversation for another day. I choose to carry open because it makes a statement that: yes, average Americans can do this, and no, I have nothing to be ashamed of by carrying open. I like to educate, and exercise my first and second amendment rights together. If people choose to take offence, well, that’s their choice.
So anyway, the day is Saturday, and it’s a beautiful day out, and another great day for OC. What makes it even neater is that my in-laws (grandfather in-law, grandmother in-law, and mother in-law) are up this week from California, and are ready for all of us to go out for the day. Time to show them a little bit more of what real America is like outside of their communist state!
So up I get, showered and dressed, complete with my XD Bi-Tone holstered nicely in a CQC Serpa on my hip. First item of business is walking the dogs on my own around the neighborhood, which I do regularly. Next is off to the grocery store, with my wife and grandfather in-law. We’re in the store maybe ten minutes, when he looks down and finally notices the XD on my belt. “Oh! Is that a real pistol?” he says. I tell him it is, at which point he replies, “Well, that’s great! You know, it’s nice to see you have that! It’s your constitutional right you know! We can’t do that in California. I think everyone should do that, or at least be able to. It’s nice to see you looking out for your family!” Needless to say I was quite pleased, and pleasantly surprised.
We gathered all the groceries we needed (shopped for about 30 minutes or so), and then off to the farmer’s market. Great produce there, good people, no issues whatsoever. Next was a trip to the rental place to pickup a minivan for a trek to the cities. Not even a second glance, as expected. After that, I was home on the garden tractor mowing the lawn, XD still at my side, smiling to, and offering the occasional wave at the neighbors.
Once that was done, we gathered to pile into the minivan for the trek to the cities. As I was coming around the back of the house to load my son into his car seat, my grandmother in-law, coming out of the front door, noticed my pistol. Everyone else started to laugh, which made me turn to see her cowering behind one of the pillars beside the front door. She was asking my grandfather in-law if that was a real gun, and if it is, then that it is scary! I smiled, and while continuing to the car with my son, told my family to mention to her that she didn’t think it was scary when we were sitting at breakfast!
They all eventually came around to the van and piled in. I think my grandmother in-law felt a little embarrassed. No problem. One more Californian converted.
Off we go to IKEA to get my wife’s ottoman (which we had forgotten to pickup on Wed when we bought the chair). Here is where I thought I might meet with my first ever kick-out by any store management, or some such. IKEA is not known to be the most carry friendly, I have heard. Still, why not see how it goes?
So in we go. The place is packed. It seems that a lot of people like IKEA, myself not among them. But that’s ok. To each his own. So I’m in there, and the ottomans are gone. Bummer. Now I’m chatting up the sales lady, trying to get a rain check. They don’t do rain checks. They don’t accept prepayments on pickups for later shipments. It was like talking to a brick wall trying to get some leeway out of these people. I now have more reasons to add to my list for not liking IKEA.
However, carry is not one of them yet. We went all through that accursed store, winding our way through to the wizard of Oz, shopping along the way, and finally out the door and back into the real world. Not a comment said by anyone, and no looks that I noticed.
Off to Jamba Juice on France Ave. Stood in line with the family, got our smoothies, sat and drank, talked, took a few photos, and no issues, as usual.
Now here’s where it gets interesting. We were early for our reservation at Timberlodge Steakhouse, so we decided to head to the nearest mall and walk around. That happened to be Southdale Mall in Edina. Great. Let’s see how Edinans are with carry. I had decent hopes, as I’ve eaten in the Ruby Tuesday’s in that mall before, OCing the entire time, and not a second glance. Today was a Saturday afternoon with a mall full of shoppers, so who knows?
In we went via the mall entrance next to the Cheesecake Factory. A few little old ladies saw me carrying (that I noticed), but they were driving out of their handicap spot at the time. Stopped at the restroom to change my son, and perused the mall for the first time. I found it to be a very nice mall, as far as malls go. Nice place, nice atmosphere.
There was a white shirted security guy that zipped by a time or two on some kind of scooter, but as I was observing him it didn’t seem to me that he noticed I was carrying. Both times I saw him (them?) scoot by, they were on my weak side. I had the pleasant opportunity of a 6’5”, 240-ish lb. black gentleman in that center-courtyard-type area come up to me and ask if I was a police officer. I responded, “No sir,” rather nonchalantly. He glanced down at my hip, then back up at me and asked, “Do you have a permit?” I replied that I certainly did. He then commented that it was interesting that I could carry openly with a permit, rather than having to conceal it. I asked if he was from Minnesota, whereupon he replied that he was from Chicago, and you “don’t ever see that there!" I engaged him a little further, wherein he told me that he had in his application for a carry permit “back home”, and that he was hoping he receives it because he carries large sums of money in his employment. I wished him good luck with that, and a good day, as he was off, and on his way. We didn’t chat long, and I was left to wonder to myself what kind of carry permit he thought he was talking about, or if he was referring to getting his People’s Republic of Illinois FOID. I suppose I’ll never know.
Anyway, we’ve been in the mall now for approximately 30-45 minutes. We had been from one end to the other at a reasonable pace, mostly window shopping, with me pushing my 9 month old son in his umbrella stroller, with my wife at my side, and mother in-law and grandparents in-law just behind us. We get to an escalator, and want to go up, but my wife insists that we take our son up only in an elevator. So off we go back down that wing of the mall to the closest elevator.
As we are waiting for the thing to get to our level, amidst other shoppers (mostly with strollers themselves), I see not a security guard, but one of Edina’s finest come around the elevator looking straight at me. When he sees we’ve got eye contact, he motions me over to the wall. My family of course all sees this as well, and are wondering what is going on. I hand off my son to my wife, whereupon I see another officer behind me approaching cautiously from the other direction. I head over the officer #1.
Now, my mind has been known at times to be less than a steel trap, so I apologize if the following is not accurate verbatim, or complete in its entirety. I was wondering on the way home what a FOIA request would yield in terms of my own recollections measured against the actual exact occurrence. But I digress.
He mentions that he sees that I am carrying a handgun, and asks if I have a permit. “Yes sir, I do.” He then requests that I present it to him, and as I did so, he informed me that he would need to verify it, and that if I wouldn’t mind, to please keep my hands clear of my weapon through our interactions. I replied that I certainly would, as I presented him with my PtoC and DL.
He called it in over his walkie, and struck up conversation with me as we waited for dispatch to confirm my valid permit. He said to me that they had received a “911 man with a gun call” from someone who had been fearful of my open carrying. He asked if I carry often, to which I replied that I did, though I’m not in the cities very much. He said to me that they don’t see that around very often (OC), and that it does concern some people when they see it, and often officers are called to check it out. I said that was perfectly fine, and understood he was doing his job. I thanked him for his professional methods of discreetly pulling me off to the side to chat, rather than coming around the corner drawn down on me, and ordering me to lay prone whilst attempting to seize my firearm.
Dispatch called back at this point saying I was valid, and the officer (I wish I could remember his name) said that he knew I was completely within my rights to carry as I wished, open or concealed, and that he wasn’t ordering me to conceal it, but that it might be for the best for me to un tuck my shirt and drape it over, at least while I was in the mall. At this point the owner (manager?) of the mall approached and introduced himself. I introduced myself, and shook his hand. He was a real nice guy too. I could almost tell that he was a carry guy himself, or at least wholly sympathetic to OC. I happened to be dealing with some fine gentlemen yesterday. For those of you who like to "tuck and stuff", I’d say Southdale Mall is a winner for you, and you might even add that to the “pro-CC section” of carry friendly establishments.
He begun by stating that it was his position as a businessman to lookout for the interests of his company, and to make sure that all of his patrons are comfortable in their shopping experiences. He said that there are some people who when they see a gun, are frightened, and that will tend to push them out of the mall, along with their money. As such, for him to ensure the best interests of his patrons (Cough*Sheep*Cough), he would prefer if I would conceal for the remainder of my shopping experience.
I clarified by saying that as I understood him, if I chose to continue to OC I would be instructed to leave, but if I chose to conceal I would be free to continue shopping with my family. He said that was absolutely correct and that I was free to shop as long as I liked and spend as much money as I wished.
Rather than argue that mall managements have no authority to ban carry, or belligerently demand to continue OCing and leave the mall, I draped my shirt over my XD, and asked if there was anything further that either the officer or manger required. They replied that there was not, and bid me good day as we all departed and I headed back over to my family at the elevator. We continued up to the second floor where we were headed to “Games by James” to check out a new board game, whereupon we left the mall to head over to Timberlodge.
I feel I made a good decision in not taking the escort to the door, and continuing to shop, even though I wished to continue OCing. My only regret is that I did not get to see the look on whomever’s face it was who decided to ring us in, when after my brief interaction, the officers and management bid us good day, and we continued along with our armed shopping. I suppose the 911’er was completely at ease with my rabid pistol frothing at the muzzle UNDER my shirt, where it couldn’t get at him (or her).
My family was actually great about it. My wife was a little scared at first, being descended upon like that, but was actually more incensed when she heard from me that someone had called 911 on
us. “As if we were anything to call 911 about! They wasted all of those officers time!” she said. “What if someone had been calling 911 for help and getting a busy signal because some chicken in a mall has pulled all the officers in the area to bother a man shopping with his wife and child!”
That’s my girl!
She mentioned to me that she had seen an officer or two in the area just before they came to talk to me, but didn’t think anything of it until our point of contact. She told me that in addition to the two officers I had by me, there were at least two to four others that had us (me?) “covered” from the upper floors and down the way a bit. My grandfather in-law told me he was proud that I choose to exercise my rights, and that he was glad to be there with me. I like to think the silver lining in this MWAG call, is that the officers were pulled from traffic duty, and a few unsuspecting motorists went home without speeding tickets yesterday afternoon.
All in all, pretty decent for a first time “show-your-papers-please” experience. When I was back to the van I had just gotten my shirt tucked back in for steakhouse OC, but my wife kindly asked me if I would conceal for the remainder of our trip, as once per day was enough to have peace officers interrupt our day for no good reason. I kindly obliged, and after dinner we were all headed back to Hutchinson.
I’ve had my permit about two years, been carrying about three months less than that, and OCing for the last six or so (since the weather went from cold to nice, in the spring). This has been my first encounter to speak of, other than the numerous positive opportunities to inform and educate people, as evidenced by the very one today with the gentleman from Chicago.
Sarcasm aside, a big +1 to the Edina officer who engaged me, and for his colleagues who were keeping the mall patrons safe. They did well in their evaluation of the situation and handling of their duties. One can only hope that a crazed gunman will wait at least a half hour or so after he OC’ies before deciding to destroy innocent shopper’s lives. Also a +1 for the way the mall manager conducted himself in regards to my situation.
That’s about it for my first time experience yesterday. Hope everyone here is enjoying their weekend!
