First on scene: Deputy Bryce Bohgenholm #2242
Complaint: Firearms Safety Violation by Deputy Bohgenholm
Department: Carlton County Sheriffs Dept.
Location: Southbound ramp from 33 onto 35
Time: Between 2200 and 2300 Tuesday 23May2006

Background:

I was on a cross-country bike trip from the Iron Range to the Twin Cities. I was traveling to the Munger Trail in Carlton. I missed my turn onto the frontage road and realized I was on the ramp only when I saw the "Emergency Stopping Only" sign. I turned around and pushed my bike back along the grassy slope so as to be safely away from the road level. The deputy stopped and I walked up to meet him, leaving my bike on the slope below.

The Incident:

I informed the deputy that I had a permit to carry a pistol and that I was carrying. He asked where I was carrying. I told him that my pistol was on my right hip. He informed me that he was going to disarm me. I complied. While attempting to clear the weapon, he pointed it at me. I told him that there was a round in the chamber and asked him not to point it at me. He responded by telling me that he knew how to handle a gun.

Followup:

Police officers from Cloquet arrived. I asked for and received directions to the Munger Trail. The deputy returned my pistol and ammunition safely and separately. We parted on good terms. I completed my bike trip without incident.

I submitted a written report of the incident to Investigator Rick Lake at the sheriff's office, and after a short discussion of the incident, he told me that he would personally give the deputy remedial training at the range.

Commentary:

Essentially, it seems that one can expect at least some law enforcement supervisors to take these situations seriously (regarding the actions by the investigator), but I now have mixed feelings about initially informing an officer that I am carrying, even if I think he may eventually want to search me.

I now appreciate more fully the wisdom of Joel Rosenberg's policy of not mentioning that you are carrying unless absolutely necessary. As he commented, "You've no way of knowing, just by looking at a cop, whether or not he or she, among other things, really knows how to handle a gun."

I am glad he is getting corrective training. It's donught hounds like him that make th rest look bad.

Proactively informing does not always provide the necessary good merit unless they will see the gun. Then pointing your own gun at you which he is not the normal user is not a great gun handling.

I'm glad you brought this up to the sheriff and did not get shot.

A cop ARGUES AGAINST the fundamental rules of firearm safety.

I agree with you. The act of disarming someboby presents great liability to both parties. And, what is the benefit that outweighs the liability? The benefit of indulging a rookie's paranoia or a veteran's Machiavellianism? Imagine the sh** storm that would arise if the officer had an AD.

Good for you that you submitted a report and the officer will recieve remedial training.

"He informed me that he was going to disarm me."
Is this standard procedure? If a LEO asks if you are carrying, and you are (with a permit), should you expect to be disarmed?
Steve

I would guess it's probably not standard procedure, but if the officer isn't comfortable with his safety I see no reason why he shouldn't.

There really is no standard procedure. If the cop has any concern for his or her safety, you will be disarmed; if they don't, you may or may not be.

I would not volunteer I was carrying unless asked or if I was told I would be searched. It's not important. ( I also wouldn't tell the officer I had keys or a pocket knife.) If you do volunteer the information you will likely spook him because YOU think it's important. He may even wonder if it's an implied threat. But the fact that somebody is carrying should not be unusual. I always keep my hands in sight for my own personal safety but not to be submissive. In Minnesota it is not required to inform the officer about the gun. If I was stopped for speeding and told the officer "Just so you know, I carry a knife" he would probably take that as a threat. If I get stopped in a a state that requires me to inform him i will preface by saying "According to the law of this State I am required to inform you that I am licensed to carry firearms and am doing so at this time. Do you have any questions about this?"

For the reason cited above, I am very very uneasy about having a LEO disarm me. For all that I know the cop will be very versed in gun safety and know my gun (1911) very well. On the other hand, he may have never handled a gun like mine in the past which would make disarming me a pretty dangerous situation.

Personally I believe that it's better to leave the gun alone. It's 100% safe if it never leaves the leather and leaves no opening for an accident. Disarming also leaves the question of rearming once your gun is returned, often times as gun, mag, and loose rounds. Are you supposed to just reload and strap up right there in the middle of the street?

I've never had a cop disarm me. I was asked once by a cop who mentioned that it might alarm others but didn't bother him one bit. I declined the request and remained armed. I was on my property and didn't feel that disarming was required for the situation (long story). What have some of you that have been disarmed done after the fact? Did you reload and return your gun to your holster? Any suggestions from the LEO upon return of your firearm?

Hopefully this is not too far off topic, since it is a similar experience in that I had my pistol pointed at me recently.

Just yesterday I arrived home from a 25 day vacation out west. During that trip it was my Glock 26 that was pointed at me, and by an Air Force armorer who should surely know better.

When we travel, we occasionally stay at Air Force Inns, Navy Lodges, and other military temporary lodging. When we enter the gate at an AFB, I make it a point to pull up to the area for visitors. I then enter the building with ID, registration, insurance card and declare that I have a firearm with me in the vehicle, locked in a box and separate from ammo. Then, I am sent to their armory to turn it in until I check out.

Without identifying the AFB, I can tell you that the E-6 who greeted me at their armory was the sloppiest gun handler I've been around! When I took the pistol from the box, he picked it up with it pointing at my chest at a distance of about a foot. Then, he handed it back to me grip first, pointing it at himself, asking me to assure him that it was clear. All this time, he had not the slightest assurance that it was unloaded. I turned to the side and put it into slidelock, then handed it back to him...from there it went smoothly. However, it was a chilling feeling when he picked it up earlier and fiddled with it while it was aimed at my chest.

Knowing how this could go if I complained, I chose to check out the next day and be on my way without pointing the incident out to anyone.

I would probably send a letter of complaint to his division officer (I don't know what the Wing Nuts call them) or the maybe base Senior NCO (I prefer to keep things at the lowest level possible). Unsafe gun handling by military people should NOT be tolerated, especially such as an armorer.

I agree with Rob. By filing a complaint, you might save the life of the next person he deals with.
If people don't know something's wrong, they can't fix it.