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 Defensive Handgun League - Bill's North 
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 Post subject: Defensive Handgun League - Bill's North
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:40 pm
Posts: 346
Location: St Michael
This is the new name for the new league I recently announced to the
Twin Cities IDPA e mail list. We plan between 50 and 96 rounds using the programmable automated turners for less than $15, exact cost to be announced.

We will be shooting from the firing line, but dropping the bars so
you can draw from the holster or low ready position. We plan to
require reloads after 6 rounds from the Tactical class pistols and
revolvers (Barrel length 3.8 inches or greater) or Carry class
pistols and revolvers (Barrel lengths less than 3.8 inches) after 5
rounds.

We want to allow the 5 shot J frames so many of us carry, but also include the Kahr, Glock 26, 27, 30 the PPK's, etc by dowloading them to five rounds. Any centerfire pistol will qualify and the league is open to all. It's first come, first served, sign up and shoot when a slot is open. We expect to have at least 5 lanes running and be able to have 4 to 6 squads go thru every other Wednesday. It should take less than 20 minutes to shoot the COF once you are on the range.

The COF will be varied, some close in, others out to 20 yards. We
will shoot freestyle, strong hand, weak hand, from the left and
right side of cover, in low light, at targets moving away and
targets coming at you. And yes, we will do the dreaded head shots!

The league will be geared to reward accuracy, not speed and will be
shot using paper IDPA targets. The self scoring will be points
down, with 5 points per shot, with results posted on the website.
Count on ample time to draw and fire. While we will allow ample
time to reload and reset between strings of fire you MUST have three
magazines or two speed loaders minimum as we will have some strings
that require two reloads.

Course of fire and league rules will be available in the lobby as will the sign up sheet. Tthere will be a range officer supervising from the control room. We expect that only trained persons who are comfortable with their
firearms will attend. All reloading must be done in the assigned
range stall with the gun safely holstered or bagged between strings
of fire. Safety violations will result in the shooter being DQ'd and
asked to leave for the evening.

This new league starts next Wednesday 11/30 from 6:00pm to 8:00pm. We have scheduled 12/14 and 12/28 for matches. Please note that, while I'm Bob Jahn, the president of Twin Cities IDPA, this is not an IDPA match and we will not follow IDPA rules. While we will run the COF and act as range officers, this league is something we are running for Bill's to give shooters trigger time. All of Bill's range rules apply and they collect and retain all funds and supply the targets and equipment we use.

Come on out and give it a try if your schedule permits!








1


Last edited by IDPA Shooter on Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Defensive Pistol and Revolver League - Bill's North 11/3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
IDPA Shooter wrote:
This is the new name for the new league I recently announced to the
Twin Cities IDPA e mail list. We plan between 50 and 96 rounds using the programmable automated turners for less than $15, exact cost to be announced.

We will be shooting from the firing line, but dropping the bars so
you can draw from the holster or low ready position. We plan to
require reloads after 6 rounds from the Tactical class pistols and
revolvers (Barrel length 3.8 inches or greater) or Carry class
pistols and revolvers (Barrel lengths less than 3.8 inches) after 5
rounds.

We want to allow the 5 shot J frames so many of us carry, but also include the Kahr, Glock 26, 27, 30 the PPK's, etc by dowloading them to five rounds. Any centerfire pistol will qualify and the league is open to all. It's first come, first served, sign up and shoot when a slot is open. We expect to have at least 5 lanes running and be able to have 4 to 6 squads go thru every other Wednesday. It should take less than 20 minutes to shoot the COF once you are on the range.

The COF will be varied, some close in, others out to 20 yards. We
will shoot freestyle, strong hand, weak hand, from the left and
right side of cover, in low light, at targets moving away and
targets coming at you. And yes, we will do the dreaded head shots!

The league will be geared to reward accuracy, not speed and will be
shot using paper IDPA targets. The self scoring will be points
down, with 5 points per shot, with results posted on the website.
Count on ample time to draw and fire. While we will allow ample
time to reload and reset between strings of fire you MUST have three
magazines or two speed loaders minimum as we will have some strings
that require two reloads.

Course of fire and league rules will be available in the lobby as will the sign up sheet. Tthere will be a range officer supervising from the control room. We expect that only trained persons who are comfortable with their
firearms will attend. All reloading must be done in the assigned
range stall with the gun safely holstered or bagged between strings
of fire. Safety violations will result in the shooter being DQ'd and
asked to leave for the evening.

This new league starts next Wednesday 11/30 from 6:00pm to 8:00pm. We have scheduled 12/14 and 12/28 for matches. Please note that, while I'm Bob Jahn, the president of Twin Cities IDPA, this is not an IDPA match and we will not follow IDPA rules. While we will run the COF and act as range officers, this league is something we are running for Bill's to give shooters trigger time. All of Bill's range rules apply and they collect and retain all funds and supply the targets and equipment we use.

Come on out and give it a try if your schedule permits!

Sounds like a lot of fun; I'll try to make it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:26 am 
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Location: Victoria
That sounds excellent! :D

Only trouble is, that’s way to far north for me, and I expect a lot of others. Is there anyway to arrange something similar with the Robbinsdale facility or another one down on or near the south side of the cities? :cry:

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 Post subject: Robbinsdale has a Defensive Pistol League on Thursdays
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:40 pm
Posts: 346
Location: St Michael
They run their league in two squads, 5:00pm and 7:00pm. A range officer runs it manually via a microphone, but its similar in setup and all are welcome, although they do have a lot of regulars who shoot it most every week.

Targets and instructions are provided, but the range tables are up and you start with the gun on the rail. I don't think they have different classes of handgun and know they are not revolver neutral, but revolvers are welcome. I think they are centerfire only and the two leagues will cost the same and have similar round counts.

I have only been a few times so a regular should feel free to correct me. The folks are great, I just started the one up north for variety and because we shot there as IDPA.


JDR wrote:
That sounds excellent! :D

Only trouble is, that’s way to far north for me, and I expect a lot of others. Is there anyway to arrange something similar with the Robbinsdale facility or another one down on or near the south side of the cities? :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Defensive Pistol and Revolver League - Bill's North 11/3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:37 am
Posts: 935
Location: Victoria
IDPA Shooter wrote:
.......We will be shooting from the firing line, but dropping the bars so you can draw from the holster or low ready position. We plan to require reloads after 6 rounds from the Tactical class pistols andrevolvers (Barrel length 3.8 inches or greater) or Carry class pistols and revolvers (Barrel lengths less than 3.8 inches) after 5 rounds.........


The red highlighted part, is the part I like!

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 Post subject: Re: Defensive Pistol and Revolver League - Bill's North 11/3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:53 pm
Posts: 1421
Location: South Minneapolis (East of Lake Nokomis)
JDR wrote:
IDPA Shooter wrote:
.......We will be shooting from the firing line, but dropping the bars so you can draw from the holster or low ready position. We plan to require reloads after 6 rounds from the Tactical class pistols andrevolvers (Barrel length 3.8 inches or greater) or Carry class pistols and revolvers (Barrel lengths less than 3.8 inches) after 5 rounds.........


The red highlighted part, is the part I like!


Me too! I've shot in the 5PM Robbinsdale league on & off for years, but now my evil employer has changed my hours; I work til 8PM. The Robbinsdale league has been cool, but (unlike IDPA) not <i>quite</i> cool enough to justify taking off work. I'm going to take off early Wednesday and check this out, though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:03 am 
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Location: East Suburbs
Looks like fun!

I'll try to make it... :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:42 pm 
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Posts: 364
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Might be able to make it...I don't get off work until 1930 that night though.


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 Post subject: More Details on Defensive Pistol and Revolver League
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:40 pm
Posts: 346
Location: St Michael
Range Rules

Twin Cities Defensive Pistol and Revolver League

Bill’s North – Circle Pines

Every Other Wednesday 6:00pm to 8:00pm


1) All existing range rules for Bill’s are in full force and effect.

2) All participants must draw from a strong side holster or low ready ( 45 degree angle ) position. Shoulder, pocket, cross draw and small of the back holsters are not permitted for safety reasons, no exceptions.

3) Tactical pistols and revolvers are 3.8 inches or longer and can be loaded with no more than 6 rounds. Carry class pistols and revolvers are less than 3.8 inches and can be loaded with only 5 rounds.

4) All ammunition must be center fire and of a type and caliber authorized by Bill’s rules. No reshoots will be given so factory or reliable reloads are requested.

5) By shooting all participants represent that that are in lawful possession of the firearm being used and have the necessary training, skill and physical and mental conditioning to compete safely.

6) Competitors have had the opportunity to review the COF description, ask questions and certify that they know and understand the course of fire.

7) The Rangemaster is in control of the range and will act to preserve safety, including disqualifying participants for safety violations. No refunds will be given and all RM instructions must be followed. The club and/or Bill’s and may suspend the person right to shoot in this league for serious safety violations.

8) Shooting order is first come, first served. Pay your fee to Bill’s, print your name, firearm used and class ( Tactical or Carry) on the sign in sheet. We will squad you based on number of lanes working so please be ready. We expect to take groups roughly every 15 minutes, the last sign up is 7:45pm to allow a timely finish.

9) Take your target into the lounge area and score it, recording your score on the sign in sheet. Remember its 10 points for each extra shots fired and 10 points for failure to follow the COF correctly.


Course of Fire

Wednesday 11/30 6:00pm to 8:00pm



1 – Target at 8 yards, 20 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots at Center of Mass (COM), mandatory reload and fire 6 additional shots at COM – 12 rounds total


2 - Target at 5 yards, 15 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots strong hand only at the head, mandatory reload and fire 6 shots weak hand only at COM 12 rounds total


3 – Target at 7, 10 and 15 yards, 25 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots, reload and fire again after target moves to next position, repeat 18 rounds total


4 – Move the barricade into position, Target at 10 yards, 25 seconds total ( Target will go sideways for 5 seconds between strings of fire)


Draw and Fire 6 shots from your strong side, reload and fire 6 rounds from the opposite side of the barricade, 12 rounds total


5 – From the barricade, Target at 7 yards, 10 seconds total


Draw and fire 2 COM and one head shot, repeat in same order 6 shots total


6 – Put barricade back, Target at 10, 15 and 20 yards, 30 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots, reload and fire again after target moves to next position, repeat 18 rounds total


Course Summary



All courses are Limited Vickers, you may not take extra shots, subtract 10 points per extra shot


Tactical pistols have 78 rounds total, 6 of which are head shots, 5 points per shot, max of 390 points available


Carry pistols have 65 rounds total, of which 5 are head shots, 5 points per shot, max of 325 points available


Based on feedback I've received, I expect a good initial turnout!


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 Post subject: Re: More Details on Defensive Pistol and Revolver League
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:40 pm
Posts: 346
Location: St Michael
Cost for the league has been set at $13.25. This is not IDPA so no local or International club dues or additional fees apply. If time and space permits, you can shoot the course of fire again with the same or a different gun by paying the same fee again.


IDPA Shooter wrote:
Range Rules

Twin Cities Defensive Pistol and Revolver League

Bill’s North – Circle Pines

Every Other Wednesday 6:00pm to 8:00pm


1) All existing range rules for Bill’s are in full force and effect.

2) All participants must draw from a strong side holster or low ready ( 45 degree angle ) position. Shoulder, pocket, cross draw and small of the back holsters are not permitted for safety reasons, no exceptions.

3) Tactical pistols and revolvers are 3.8 inches or longer and can be loaded with no more than 6 rounds. Carry class pistols and revolvers are less than 3.8 inches and can be loaded with only 5 rounds.

4) All ammunition must be center fire and of a type and caliber authorized by Bill’s rules. No reshoots will be given so factory or reliable reloads are requested.

5) By shooting all participants represent that that are in lawful possession of the firearm being used and have the necessary training, skill and physical and mental conditioning to compete safely.

6) Competitors have had the opportunity to review the COF description, ask questions and certify that they know and understand the course of fire.

7) The Rangemaster is in control of the range and will act to preserve safety, including disqualifying participants for safety violations. No refunds will be given and all RM instructions must be followed. The club and/or Bill’s and may suspend the person right to shoot in this league for serious safety violations.

8) Shooting order is first come, first served. Pay your fee to Bill’s, print your name, firearm used and class ( Tactical or Carry) on the sign in sheet. We will squad you based on number of lanes working so please be ready. We expect to take groups roughly every 15 minutes, the last sign up is 7:45pm to allow a timely finish.

9) Take your target into the lounge area and score it, recording your score on the sign in sheet. Remember its 10 points for each extra shots fired and 10 points for failure to follow the COF correctly.


Course of Fire

Wednesday 11/30 6:00pm to 8:00pm



1 – Target at 8 yards, 20 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots at Center of Mass (COM), mandatory reload and fire 6 additional shots at COM – 12 rounds total


2 - Target at 5 yards, 15 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots strong hand only at the head, mandatory reload and fire 6 shots weak hand only at COM 12 rounds total


3 – Target at 7, 10 and 15 yards, 25 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots, reload and fire again after target moves to next position, repeat 18 rounds total


4 – Move the barricade into position, Target at 10 yards, 25 seconds total ( Target will go sideways for 5 seconds between strings of fire)


Draw and Fire 6 shots from your strong side, reload and fire 6 rounds from the opposite side of the barricade, 12 rounds total


5 – From the barricade, Target at 7 yards, 10 seconds total


Draw and fire 2 COM and one head shot, repeat in same order 6 shots total


6 – Put barricade back, Target at 10, 15 and 20 yards, 30 seconds total


Draw and Fire 6 shots, reload and fire again after target moves to next position, repeat 18 rounds total


Course Summary



All courses are Limited Vickers, you may not take extra shots, subtract 10 points per extra shot


Tactical pistols have 78 rounds total, 6 of which are head shots, 5 points per shot, max of 390 points available


Carry pistols have 65 rounds total, of which 5 are head shots, 5 points per shot, max of 325 points available


Based on feedback I've received, I expect a good initial turnout!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:49 pm 
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Posts: 266
Location: N Mpls, MN
Cost for the league has been set at $13.25


Is this the total price, or are there range fees in addition?

Sounds like fun!

Thanks!

TomK
Mpls, MN


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 Post subject: Dewfensiv Pistol and Revolver League Cost
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:36 pm 
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Posts: 346
Location: St Michael
W0THK wrote:
Cost for the league has been set at $13.25


Is this the total price, or are there range fees in addition?

Sounds like fun!

Thanks!

TomK
Mpls, MN


This is the total price and it includes the state tax and the paper IDPA target we will be using. The cost is the same for the Robbinsdale league. Please note that $13.25 fee only includes the league shoot. If you want to use the range Bill's normal $20 fee applies.

Drawing from concealment is optional in this league. However, this being winter in MN and the ranges tending to be colder due to the air exchangers, I'll be wearing my coat for the real world practice.

Also, like the other leagues, no make up shoots are possible.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:53 pm 
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Oh My! That was, was ahhh Humbling! Fun, but very humbling. Must practice reloads! Must practice reloads! But allas, in an attempt to save a little face, that was only the second time I have shot on a timed basis...

:oops: :oops: :oops:

Mostly-


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 Post subject: 11/30 Lessons Learned
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:56 pm 
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Location: South Minneapolis (East of Lake Nokomis)
Yes, humbling indeed. I bet I wasn't the only one who was horrified by their score, especially how many less than 78 holes they made.

I was kinda confused, too, about when to reload & keep shooting on the clock; I think that could be clarified either in the written CoF or better yet also in the verbal range commands. I mean, spell it out for us dumb people: "There will NOT be a verbal 'Fire' command; engage the target when it turns with 6 rounds to CoM. Cease fire when it turns sideways. reload while target moves. Engage with 6 more when it turns. You will expend 12 rounds" Something like that.

One first impression when I realized that we were only using 1 target was: '78 holes is a lot to sort out', but when we were done this seemed like less of a problem than I expected. If we were playing for money or something it could lead to arguments about doubles, but tonight at least, I was pretty sure the 33 missing holes were either rounds I failed to fire or shots where I missed the paper. I kinda wish I'd started with a fresh box of ammo so I knew exactly how many rounds I fired.

Having done my bitching let me hasten to say -- that was FUN. I plan to be back. Thanks, Bob (and whoever)!

And last but not most importantly [:)], my excuse: on the very first draw, the dovetailed front sight on my cheap Charles Daly 1911 FELL OFF. I was pretty much point shooting tonight. I'll pump it full of epoxy or something and won't have that excuse next time.

See ya next time!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:16 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Cryrstal
This sounds great. I have tentative plans to be out of town on December 14, but if they fall through, I'll try to make it. Otherwise I'll be there the 28 for sure.

That is if I can get away from work a bit early. Six O'clock is a tough time to make it all the way to Bill's North. Seven would be infinitely better.

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