I stopped off at Saint Anthony Village Wine and Spirits - STORE 2 off of Silver Lake road (less than a mile and a half from the house, very convenient) to pick up a bottle of single malt Scotch (Thomatin 12 year old in case anyone is interested).

It was lovely and sunny so I left the cover garment in the car. This means I am wearing a pale yellow button-down shirt, cargo shorts and the bloody orthopedic sandals the foot doctor has me in, and, of course, my Para P-14 .45 in a shoulder holster.

I'm still moving a little slowly post foot surgery (but I'm getting better), so I shuffle in, look around trying to remember where the Scotch is (the far side of the store, naturally). So I shuffle over and take a look at what they have, and what their prices are. Decent selection, prices are about normal. I grabbed the 12 year old Thomatin and shuffle towards the registers, stopping to mention to one fresh-faced lad that I had taken the last bottle.

I exchange pleasantries with the register clerk, pay, exchange more pleasantries and shuffle off. As I am pulling out of the shopping plaza, I see a couple of squad cars pulling in. No lights flashing or anything, so I thought maybe they're going to Chipotle for lunch, but the continue down towards the liquor store. I'm pulling onto Silver Lake Road by this time, wondering if they were looking for me. I know, I know, the world doesn't revolve around me, but I still cherish some hope.

I made a quick turn into Cub, and drove down past the liquor store again. No cops parked outside, so they must have just been on their way somewhere else, I sez to myself.

Oh, look! A third cruiser (SUV actually). And there are the other two, behind me with their lights on. Kewel! It really <i>is</i> all about me.

So I nosed into a parking spot, pulled the keys out and tossed them on the dash, the stuck my hands out the window (all of my LEO friends assure me that cops are *really happy* when they can see a driver's hands.

One of the officers comes to the window while the other stands next to the hood where he can see me clearly. He asks if I have a permit, yes I do in my wallet in my back pocket, please pull it out, oaky I'm going to undo my seatbelt, etc.. He checks my permit then hands my licence to his partner to get my info while we chat.

I told him I'd seen the two of them pull in and came back just in case it was me they were looking for, which he said they really appreciated. We chatted about how the store isn't posted, but they still could have just asked me to leave if they didn't want my business, he said he'd educated them on the fact that it is not a 'concealed carry' permit, and said that he thought someone just panicked.

I got my license back, and he thanked me again for coming back, I thanked him for his courteous professionalism. He then asked if that was a .45 I was carrying "cocked and locked"? I prudently did <i>not</i> pull it out to show him, but I did say that yes, it was a Para Odrnance P-14 in .45 caliber. He said "Yeah, the bore looked really big as I was coming up on you."

I sent a feedback to the liquor store ( http://www.stanthonyvillagewineandspirits.com/ ) assuring them that unless I heard otherwise I would abide by their (unstated but apparent) wishes and not darken their doorstep again. So we'll see what comes of that.

Again, I have to say the Saint Anthony cops were very polite and professional, it was almost a pleasure to have them pull me over.

I have now sent off an e-mail to Chief Ohl commending his officers.

And I received a reply from the manager of the liquor store:

<blockquote>Mr. Krafft,

Thank you for your email regarding your visit to St. Anthony Village Wine & Spirits on Wednesday May 16, 2007.

I was unaware if the particulars regarding the gun permit laws of the State of Minnesota. The Police Officers stopped by and informed me of the ability for people to carry weapons under this law. I am now better informed.

I have never experienced any of the 20,000 plus permit holders in the metro area carrying a weapon so visible before. I have to assume that I have had at least one of the 20,000 plus metro area permit holders in the store before, just not with a their weapons on their outer clothing.

Our reaction was what I believe a typical reaction would be, startled. I have to assume that we are not the first group to experience that reaction. Our feeling of uncertainty should not be confused with you as a person being welcomed or unwelcome in our stores. When I made the call to 9-1-1, I told them that you were not acting suspicious and we were not threatened. I was however reacting to what I hope anyone would do in this day and age, which is have the Police Department check it out.

I am assuming that this has happened to you before as the Police Officers told me that you circled back after seeing them in the area around the store. They mentioned that you thought they were looking for you.

Please allow me to educate you on my understanding of the "Banning of guns" posting. This is a Municipal Liquor Operations, meaning we are owned and operated by the City of St. Anthony. My recollection is that we are unable to post that particular sign due to this store being considered a public building. I can assure you that I will research our ability to post that sign in the very near future. <B>If I am able to post the sign, I will do so immediately. [emphasis added]</b>

I also ask for your understanding on why myself or another staff member would not walk up to a person carrying a 45 caliber hand gun and ask them to leave our store. I am hoping that I would not have to explain why we wouldn't, just that we wouldn't. My assumption is our feeling of uncertainty and intimidation in this situation could probably be compared to the same reasons that you carry a weapon in the first place.

Again, thank you for your email and the opportunity for me to explain our position. We welcome your business in our operation but would appreciate concealing your weapon to prevent any future misunderstandings. I strive to provide a safe, customer friendly environment here, where weapons are not needed.

Sincerely,
Michael Larson</blockquote>

So it looks like we are not welcome at St. Anthony Village Wine & Spirits.

As for

<blockquote>I also ask for your understanding on why myself or another staff member would not walk up to a person carrying a 45 caliber hand gun and ask them to leave our store.</blockquote>

For those of you who don't know me, I am 6'5" and around 340 pounds. I have a feeling that even absent a .45 they would not walk up to me and ask me to leave.

Reasonable request.............conceal your firearm also.



If the bad guys comply also .........great

Bruce, they should welcome you into their store just to scare off the bad guys he is worried about.

If they're a public building, they can't post.

Interesting story. Thanks for the post.

I'm happy to hear how the cops dealt with this. They didn't order you out of your vehicle w/ your hands up, blah, blah, blah. They were kind and courteous...that can go a LONG ways these days.

I guess I can also understand the concern of the store owner. I support our gun laws 100% in this state, however, people (er...sheep) just aren't used to seeing people carrying openly. When you do that, I would think you would almost expect to be dealing with a "man with a gun" phone call.

The part that concerns me the most is the fact that the owner is activley trying to have the business posted as a no-guns-allowed premises. I still have yet to understand why people think those signs make any difference. BAD GUYS DON'T CARE ABOUT THOSE SIGNS!....hell, they probably prefer to see those signs on the stores they are about to rob.

Good job by the police.

Idiot job by the store owner. Not like you pulled your $800 out of the $200 holster to buy a $50+ bottle of boose. Oh well, I guess you won't be going back.

I am surprised that I heard back so quickly, here is my letter:

<blockquote>Dear Chief Ohl,

I just wanted to commend your officers who pulled me over today (5/16 at about 1:30PM). They were responding to a "man with a gun" call from Saint Anthony Liquor off of Silver Lake Road between Cub and Wal*Mart. Your men were very polite and to my untrained eye, very professional. They asked to see my permit, chatted with me for a few minutes about what had happened, and once it was apparent everything was in order we all went on our way.

I frequently carry openly (I know this gives up tactical advantage, I have strategic reasons for doing so) and so have had more than one encounter with various officers around the metro. My interaction with your officers was by far the pleasantest (not even least unpleasant) I have had to date. I have heard that Saint Anthony has an outstanding department and your officers today lived up to their reputation.

My one regret is that I neglected to get the officers' names in order to commend them to your attention, but I hope the information I've given above is sufficient to identify them to you.

Thank-you for your time, and thank-you and your people for your efforts on our behalf.

Peace,

Bruce W. Krafft</blockquote>


and here is the Chief's reply.

<blockquote>Mr. Kraft,

Thank you for your comments about my Officers. I agree that they are an extremely dedicated and professional group. What I am quite concerned about is your decision to carry your weapon exposed to the public. Clearly this choice scares people and is fraught with opportunity for misunderstandings and unnecessary contacts with law enforcement. By
your own description, your decision has caused issues elsewhere and uses up valuable resources when Police have to respond to calls from concerned frightened citizens. It will be incidents such as this that will bring the MN carry law back to the legislature for additional discussion.

With great freedom comes great responsibility, and <b>the responsible action for a law abiding citizen in possession of a permit to carry, is to conceal the weapon so as not to unduly frighten and alarm the general public and businesses. [emphasis added]</b>

Again, thank you for your comments about my Officers. I will make sure
to forward your comments to the Officers who took the call.

John Ohl
Chief of Police</blockquote>

Okay, this bothers me a bit. I get the feeling that I am being told "Of <i>course</i> you have civil rights: but just be a good little [insert racial epithet here], stay in the back of the bus and don't try to mix with the white folks."

Am I overreacting?

Or is it perfectly reasonable for a store owner to call 9-1-1 to report that there is a middle-aged man buying a bottle of Scotch in his store and carrying a gun, and that I was "not acting suspicious and we were not threatened" and equally reasonable for the PD to "[use] up valuable resources when Police have to respond to calls from concerned frightened citizens" rather than telling the 'frightened citizen' to call back when there is a real problem?

If I were frightened and called 9-1-1 to report a [insert despised racial or religious minority here] man in my store "not acting suspicious and we were not threatened" could I expect the PD to dispatch 3 cars to calm my fears? And would the Chief chastise the person who 'caused' the problem by acting in a perfectly legal fashion?

A lot of this boils down to public education on the carry law (or lack of). One would THINK that business owners would feel it incumbent upon themselves to get educated. Apparently, they don't have the proper motivation to do so. They'd just rather "wing it" until they get called on their mistakes. Of course, this seems to be the way that most organizations work around this state. My old homeowner's association admitted to "we don't follow the law because we haven't researched it. We just "wing it" until we run into a problem".

One little question can stop that.... "what is the man with the gun doing?" "oh, buying _______, and not waving the gun around... ok"

"It will be incidents such as this that will bring the MN carry law back to the legislature for additional discussion."
No, it'll be the whiny chiefs that can't educate their dispatchers in 'how to not waste resources'.


[sarcasm]I know the speed limit is 30, but the responsible thing is to always drive half the speed limit.

Consider writing a response to the chief re-commending the officers for their professionalism, despite working under a moron.

He had no idea who he was talking to, huh?

while not totally supporting his choices, (StA PD chief) I can understand his point. sending out three cruisers to deal with what ends up being a non issue does compromise his readiness.

I have always felt that when I see people who are doing things in the open and without visual "guilt" they are almost always doing what is permitted of them when you see a guy diggin up a yard in dayligh you figure he;s supposed to be there. when you see a guy nice dressed carrying a gun, you figure its ok,

Let's remember that the liquor store manager isn't the owner -- he's a CIVIL SERVANT!

The municipal store can't post, and can't remove you for carrying openly -- that would be a violation of your civil rights under color of law.

It's a bit out of my way, but I think I may need to go pick up a bottle of scotch there myself. And the days are getting quite warm -- a cover garment might be uncomfortable.

+1 and maybe another +1.

I may have to stop by to purchase and adult refreshment. I know of another on the forum, who may also be interested in doing some shopping.

Do they have Jameson 12 year?


Red