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 Open carry in Wisconsin?? 
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 Post subject: Open carry in Wisconsin??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Location: Farmington, MN
After looking at some legislation I had questions and went looking for answers at the St. Croix county sheriffs office, through the chief deputy. Below is my email to him, and his response.

Deputy Shilts,

I am a Minnesota resident who travels to the St. Croix area often to visit friends and enjoy some of the great local areas. I happen to work as an armed security officer and find that my travels to Wisconsin are frequently immediately after work. Please note that I am also an NRA certified firearms instructor and a permit to carry instructor certified by the MN BCA. My question is as follows:

I am aware that WI does not allow the concealed carry of firearms by those other that law enforcement personnel [s. 941.23]. After reading some WI legislation though, it would appear to me as though open carry is not designated as illegal. Although WI law does not specifically prohibit the open carrying of loaded or unloaded firearms in public, I fear in doing so I may be putting myself at risk of another offense such as disorderly conduct on the grounds that the display may threaten public peace or safety. How am I to transport my sidearm with me during my travels to WI after work?? There are no safe facilities to unholster, unload, and case a firearm at my place of employment or on it’s premise. I work at an public restaurant and using the restroom or parking lot to disarm is both a very poor place to be handling a live firearm, in addition, if doing so in the parking lot I could potentially frighten nearby persons.

Is there a clause or stipulation in WI law that would allow me to keep my sidearm holstered until I reach a suitable place to change into civilian attire, and unload and case my firearm? During this time I would be traveling directly to a place to do so, in a uniform consisting of all the standard law enforcement equipment (body armor, cuffs, baton, taser, etc…). It would be very difficult to be mistaken as an unlawful individual.

I did call your sheriffs department to inquire about this matter but was given very little helpful information despite the best efforts of those I spoke to. I would appreciate any help you can provide in this matter. I have been traveling to remote areas to be able to get out of my automobile, unload and store my firearms, before continuing into WI. This is a practice I don’t wish to continue for many very good reasons. I look forward to your response and appreciate your time.

Regards,

Duane Johnson


The response (notice i think he's telling me i can openly carry, or nearly):

Duane,

I wish I had an easy fix for you but the fact is that I do not. You are correct in your interpretation of your ability to “openly carry” a firearm in Wisconsin, within obvious restrictions (i.e. schools, taverns, and the like). Also you should know that many cities and villages in Wisconsin have ordinances restricting the “open carry” within their limits. The only two exceptions are for law enforcement officers and active military personnel while on duty. You will also need to concern yourself with the DNR regulation restricting the carrying of a loaded or uncased firearm in a vehicle (DNR code 167.31 (3) (B)).

To the best of my knowledge the only remedy for security officers is to be licensed to carry by the Wisconsin Department of Licensing and Regulation as a Private Investigator/Security Officer.

I also note in your e-mail you carry a Taser. This is also not allowed by Wisconsin law. You can not even possess one without the license that I mentioned earlier.

Even if this agency wanted to give you permission to carry these items, we do not have the ability.

In short, as to the firearm, it must be unloaded and in a closed case to be transported in a vehicle. The Taser is simply not allowed period. Again the only remedy is to get licensed in the State of Wisconsin through the State Department of Licensing and Regulation.

I hope this at least points you in the right direction,


John A. Shilts

Chief Deputy

St. Croix County Sheriff's Office

1101 Carmichael Rd

Hudson, WI 54016

Ph# 715-381-4320

Fax# 715-386-4606

e-mail johns@co.saint-croix.wi.us



Any thoughts on this?? From what I'm reading, I can carry openly minus in my car or at the schools and pubs.... ??


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 Post subject: Re: Open carry in Wisconsin??
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:11 pm 
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Duane J wrote:
From what I'm reading, I can carry openly minus in my car or at the schools and pubs.... ??


In general, it would seem that way. But I wouldn't want to bet my freedom on it, and in your case probably your job too. You know what they say about legal advice from cops.

But specific to your question, I don't see how this helps you after work. Apperantly you can't posses the Tazer at all, so that can't go anymore. And if you can't open carry in the car, then no driving over packin.

So I think you're going to have to find a whole new routine for after work visits. Unless, of course, this is all hypothetical.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:25 pm 
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Just reminds me of how thankful I am for all those who worked to get good legislation passed here. Very thankful!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:41 pm 
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Freakin' Cheeseheads.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:29 pm 
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The deputy is mostly right... but this part:
Quote:
Also you should know that many cities and villages in Wisconsin have ordinances restricting the “open carry” within their limits.

... is not. Well, they may have ordinances restricting it, but they won't (or at least shouldn't) hold up in court. WI has a state pre-emption law much like MN in that no village, city, township, county, etc may pass any gun regulations that are stricter than the state law.

All that being said... open carry is not common and you could end up facing charges regardless - at least that seems to be the common consensus - leaving you to be the test case.

Allegedly, plans are in place to remedy this situation.

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 Post subject: Easy fix for this is what I do.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:22 am 
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I have a gun safe in the trunk of the car and when I know I am going to Wisconsin I simply open the trunk and disarm. I have done this a hundred times n the past and not once did anyone nearby even take a second glance at me. (and I am dressed in Civies.) Then I travel into Wisconsin knowing my guns are unloaded and in a locked case. In the event you are pulled over there should be no probable cause to search your vehicle so no tazer will ever be found. I have been traveling in Wisconsin for 30 years and pulled over more then a few times. Never have I been searched personally or had my vehicle searched.

Its good to try to be compliant with every law, but sometimes common sense wins out. The risk of getting getting in trouble in this case is extremely low. I mean really, really low.
Good luck,
Mike

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:38 am 
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Location: Farmington, MN
i think simian12 sorta nailed it. i'm not out to push the boundries, but i would have surely thought there would be something written into the law for security personnel in transit. i have emailed State of Wisconsin
Department of Regulation & Licensing to find out if i can be permited for carry as security personnel can me in WI. i did find another interesting tidbit:

Q. Can a loaded firearm be transported in a vehicle?

A. Under certain circumstances. The firearm must be in plain view. “In plain view" means it is visible from ordinary observation to a person outside the vehicle. A firearm located in a glove compartment, in a briefcase, under a seat of a vehicle, or covered by the clothing of an occupant, is not "in plain view."

If the firearm is a handgun, the owner or employee must transport the firearm in a holster which is in plain view as well.


as found here: http://drl.wi.gov/prof/fire/pfaq.htm

that may have just said i can put my loaded, holstered firearms on my passenger seat.... ?!?!

thanks for the $0.02 everyone, i appreciate all the input.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:24 pm 
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In my long experience as a WI resident the only time you can safely open carry without fear of being detained is while hunting with a handgun.

I have been questioned and my handgun inspected numerous times by the WI DNR while bow hunting (limited to .22 rimfire) and when deer hunting to ensure I had a legal caliber for deer. In every case they were polite but I always had the feeling I was being "hassled" by someone looking to write a citation.

Sure glad I live in MN now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:56 pm 
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mpthole wrote:
The deputy is mostly right... but this part:
Quote:
Also you should know that many cities and villages in Wisconsin have ordinances restricting the “open carry” within their limits.

... is not. Well, they may have ordinances restricting it, but they won't (or at least shouldn't) hold up in court. WI has a state pre-emption law much like MN in that no village, city, township, county, etc may pass any gun regulations that are stricter than the state law.

All that being said... open carry is not common and you could end up facing charges regardless - at least that seems to be the common consensus - leaving you to be the test case.

Allegedly, plans are in place to remedy this situation.


I thought the same thing when I read this part too. They rely on the fact that few of us want or have the means to be the test case I guess.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:01 pm 
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Location: Farmington, MN
after pouring over statutes and reading everything i can, they do in fact have a pre-emption law. cities, townships, etc, cannot exceed state law. open carry in wisconsin is flat out legal in wisconsin barring the standard illegal locations: bars, schools, and such. it is also illegal while driving. go figure on that bit, but there is case law on it.

i think the only snag here is that no one has the jewels to put the pedal to the floor and run with it.

i did open up a great dialogue with the chief duputy in st. croix county who was more than happy to lend his opinion on my findings.

any more input on this?? i think being able to open carry in WI is a great thing, but do i dare?? lol


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:08 am 
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Just for clarification. When I cross the state line to visit friends in St. Croix Falls I can:
Remove my holster and gun and place in plain sight in the vehicle?
My problem is when I get to their house I have to lock it up. :cry:

They are slowly starting to accept the fact that when they come to my house I wear my gun. It has been implied that I don't wear it in their house (requested through my wife) Now that they have a baby girl he is asking about getting a shotgun for protecting the house and their new addition. :D

Amazing how protective we get when there is a 'new addition'

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:23 am 
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first off, I wouldn't take anything you read on this forum as legal advice...not to say that we don't have legal experts on here...because I know we do (I am not one of them). But when in doubt...follow Denny Green and take the high road unless you can afford to be a test case.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:17 pm 
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"Kenosha - Open Carry Letter and Responses from Law Enforcement."
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/8217.html

"I Did It - Open Carry In Kenosha."
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/8284.html

The WI forum URL at OC.org is
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/


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